What do you think about this Singer 45K69

[Evo160K]

Hello vintage iron admirers.  Recently, I picked up this Singer 45K69 circa 1919 from an eBay seller who knew nothing about it.  It was even filthier on the outside than it is now, but the gearing and shafts are fairly clean inside.  The screws don't appear to have been abused.  The foot, dog and needle plates look to be in good shape as well.  It has 2-3 miserable coats of rattle can paint and no decals.  It came with part of the heater tubing, but nothing else.  It turns over freely as the seller said, however it's not sewing.......it's not forming the loop for the hook to catch using 346 bonded poly and a #26 needle.  It may be a timing issue, but before I start doing something I'm not sure about, perhaps you can offer your thoughts.  I believe this subclass normally uses heavier thread, but since the loop doesn't even begin to form, I think it may be something other than timing, perhaps a missing part.  I'm not sure if the tension assemblies are positioned properly either, although the tension on the top and bottom thread feel good.......similar to my Singer 45K25 and 45K53.

Would you please look at these pictures and tell me if it's threaded properly and what's missing or incorrect?  Any other comments you care to make will be greatly appreciated.

Before I go too far refurbishing this machine, I'd like to know if it sews.  I have a copy of the Singer illustrated parts list, but no service manual.

Thank you good people, thank you very much.

 

 

Edited January 24, 2018 by Evo160K

[Evo160K]

    and this of course

 

Edited January 24, 2018 by Evo160K

[Constabulary]

Ha - now you are bitten by the Cast Iron Bug

It´s a sole stitcher, right?

Top tension looks like there is a pulley between the 2 discs which is okay in this case but I would guess you have to wrap the thread around the pulley - if you know what I mean.

Seems it has no thread regulator spring - maybe you also have to wrap the thread around the post where the thread regulator unit supposed to be. Just a guess

[Wizcrafts]

You're either going to have to switch to running linen thread through liquid bees wax (e.g.: Sellari's Stitching Wax), or find a check spring assembly and figure out how to mount it on the face plate, before the take-up lever. Perhaps it could replace that lower left roller.

The thread needs to be double or triple wrapped around the top roller to get any top tension at all. That roller is meant to grab waxed linen thread. Bonded poly probably just slips on it.

[jimi]

 Oh yes Folker, Al has the bug  you might have to sell your car to make way for the other 5 or 6 machines to come! 

very nice looking machine there Al. as you can tell from the parts book it was for sole stitching and the needle plate had a knife that fitted in that channel in between the teeth of the feed dogs to cut a channel in the leather to sink the thread in the leather #95111. i am just guessing but that disk with the hole on the side #17547 where the thread passes through after the first set of disks, would make more sense right after the disks . it seems to be too far away from the thread path?? on this one there is no thread take up lever spring, instead looks like the roller and stud moves up and down with the needle bar. #91764, 91787, 91788. i would maybe try with a smaller needle and thread first?? the thread path looks right to me? and yes as folker said, 1 1/2 times around the second tension unit with the roller. tell us how you get on Al, regards jimi. 

[Evo160K]

Thank you Constabulary, Wizcrafts and Jimi for your thoughts, thank you very much.

@Constabulary  Yes it seems I have been bitten, not sure if that's a good thing at this stage in life though. This K69 is indeed a sole stitcher.....I'll never use it that way, just enjoy working on them.   I am wrapping the thread around the pulley, I learned that from you and jimi while setting up the 45K53.  I was also wondering why there's no thread regulating spring.   Then I noticed in the parts manual, those two springs (they're stacked one over the other) by the red arrow in the picture below, are adjustable with that domed head, split screw. They can be adjusted to "pinch" the thread between the springs more or less.  Do you think that serves a similar function?

 

@Wizcrafts  When you say "double or triple wrapped around the top roller", by top roller are you referring to the pulley on the top tension assembly?  I ask because there are rollers on both the (upper) thread take-up lever and (lower) auxiliary thread take-up lever on the faceplate with the facing screws, that the thread passes through. Btw, the thread doesn't seem to be slipping on the top tension assembly pulley.

Do you think those stacked springs work similarly to the check spring assembly?   Thanks Wiz.

 

@Jimi  That 95111 knife wasn't on my machine, is it on yours?  Btw I had the 91794 thread retainer and screw, but have managed to misplace them. 

"i am just guessing but that disk with the hole on the side #17547 where the thread passes through after the first set of disks, would make more sense right after the disks."  Can you explain that a bit more?  I agree the hole in that 17547 disc is not in the thread path the way it is now.

 

"on this one there is no thread take up lever spring, instead looks like the roller and stud moves up and down with the needle bar. #91764, 91787, 91788."  That is correct, the roller and stud move up and down with the needle bar.

The picture below more or less shows how that's done.  There's a piece, 91764, attached to the needle bar that engages the curved slot and moves that lower take-up lever as the needle bar moves.

 

 

So I'm still puzzled as to how that loop is formed with this machine.

Jimi, does your parts list have a Numerical List of Part Numbers?  Mine doesn't, makes it more difficult to maneuver in the parts list, but it's doable....just slower.

Thanks again one and all.

[Wizcrafts]

Something has to stop the thread in the needle down position in order for the loop to form. It may well be the flat spring you outlined. That's sorta kinda like the function of the paddle spring on a 29k needle bar.

[jimi]

Hi Al, no i have no knife for the plate i made up. i did not get around to making the feed dog either. it seemed a little confusing how the knife worked and how deep it would cut etc... so it was parked.. the one with the two teeth on the right worked great considering it looks really rough  once lined up with the stitch length and you don´t hit any tight curves, you don´t really see any marks at all underneath. anyway your tension stud looks like it was changed because the one in the parts list # SS439 has a short length of body from the thread to the disk. the one you have has a longer length of body, that is why that disk is so far away from the thread path. i will upload the numerical parts list for you.

.

 

 

[jimi]

[jimi]