What do you think about this Singer 45K69

[jimi]

Hi Al, here are the illustrations meantime that were uploaded in another topic. if you have the dixie pdf then that copy Sup`des this one k3351. and this one Sup`des K2268. if you do have the dixie copy then you were right, that stud is not there nor the disk #17547? 

on the subject of the loop, i`am not sure about the thread and the paddle commented by wiz and folker?? if you look in this post for the 45k68 the thread used in the machine looks like b-nylon and it does not seem to have been threaded through that plate with the springs on the cover. and it looks like it has sewn some stitches?? then in the other picture the yellow thread is through the plate?? that is why i said in the first post to try maybe a smaller needle and thread?? like folker said if you have a nº 26 needle in and the thread passes freely up and down the groove on the needle with no friction from the leather then i would imagine you will not get any loop to form?? aren´t  old machines fun when they do not cooperate! 

11 hours ago, Evo160K said:

Something else I noticed in the parts list is the 45K69 uses 82551 Thread Controlling Lever and 95132 Thread Controlling Lever Spring.  (See attached pictures.)  The K68 and K71 don't use these parts. The 82551 lever is used on the 45K21,K25, but the spring is different., On the K69 they're used on tension screw stud SS391.  So are these the parts that form the loop on the K69?  Since the 45K68 and 45K71 don't use these two parts, how is the loop formed on those two subclasses?  I'm so puzzled as to how the loop is formed on the K69.

I think the stud and roller on your machine that moves with the needle bar does the same thing as the above tension assembly with the spring. try to push a threaded needle into a piece of leather by hand and then pull it backwards, you should see a loop appear?

yes i think the three sizes of knife will have to do with the thread and depth of cut Al, well spotted 

i will get some pictures of the face plate but it is not the same as your 45k69 it is the same as your 45k25?? 

yes Al, thanks. i did make that two-teeth feed dog.

this is a singer one...

Edited January 26, 2018 by jimi

[Evo160K]

Thank you good people for your thoughts and thank you Jimi for your pictures.  Without you all helping me,  I wouldn't begin to work on these machines.

Here's where things stand at the moment, the machine will not pick up the bobbin thread, it won't even initially pull the bobbin thread through the needle plate to get it on top.  I tried lowering the needle bar 2-4 mm, no help, I went to a number 24 needle with the same thread thinking that wouldn't allow the thread to slide through the eye on the up stroke thereby forcing a loop to form.....no dice, a loop will not form.  Obviously I'm doing something wrong.......I'm at a loss.  Any thoughts?

I'll try to do a short video if I can remember how.  

Thank you, thank you very much.

[Wizcrafts]

Can you get some prewaxed thread and try sewing with it?

[Evo160K]

5 hours ago, Wizcrafts said:

Can you get some prewaxed thread and try sewing with it?

Yes Wiz, I will do that, thank you.  What size do you suggest, and what's a good source for it?

[Wizcrafts]

I'd guess 6 cords would be standard for sewing shoe soles. But, it depends on the size of the needle. Is there a number like 25, 26, 27 (or 200, 220, 250), etc?

If in doubt, take the needle to where they sell waxed linen thread and get the largest thread that easily slides through the eye of the needle without binding or dragging. The needle must punch a hole big enough for both the top and bottom thread to form a lockstitch knot. That knot will be about twice the diameter of one thread, or even more. If the needle is 2mm diameter, try using waxed thread just under 1mm. 6 cord linen thread is about .72mm diameter. You'll need more clearance than if you were using bonded polyester thread, which is wound tighter.

[jimi]

Al, have you tried cranking up the tension little by little on both units??

[Evo160K]

Thanks Wiz, very clear explanation.  I will get the 6 cord, and yes, I have 25 and 26 leatherpoint needles.

Since the seller knew nothing about sewing, and I couldn't test the machine, I couldn't check shuttle timing, which I'm beginning to suspect.  The mechanics instructions I have are a bit unclear on shuttle timing....to me that is.  I'll post a couple of pictures for comments.

 

Hi Jimi, no I haven't done much with the tension other than set them to feel about the way I set the K25 and K53.  The thread is staying taunt until just before the point reaches the needle plate, and last night a small loop was forming, but the shuttle seemed to pass just below it.  Like I told Wiz, I suspect shuttle timing.......I'll post pics.

Thank you both for hanging in with me, I'm grateful.

[Constabulary]

Needle hook timing should be the same as on your other 45K so compare the timing cycles I suggest.

[Wizcrafts]

A number 26 (220) needle is iffy for 6 cord linen thread. It really calls for a #27 (250). You might need to limit your machine to 5 cord thread, or buy some #27 leather point needles.

[Evo160K]

Thank you Wiz, Folker, Jimi, thank you very much.  You guys sure know your machines.  Like I've said several times in the past, if it weren't for you, I'd never attempt to restore these old machines.

So I asked the local, retired gentleman who maintained 300 or so machines for a local tent, awning and flag company to come by and take a look.  He's helped me with the other three machines.....Singer 45K25, 45K53 and the Claes shoepatcher.  The timing was off and of course the tension. It's sewing well now.   Here's what it looked like before he adjusted the timing.  The piece of paper is 4.5 mm up and down, and the needle is a No. 24 Schmetz leather point..

    BDC  TDC

You'll recognize immediately the shuttle point was way below the scarf, but also I though the shuttle needed to be adjusted as well, which I wasn't sure how to do.  That' and I wanted the machine checked over.  Also I couldn't get the handwheel off, I was afraid to pull or pry on the cast iron.  He put a piece of wood into the inspection hole and jammed the crankshaft while he rotated and pulled on the handwheel....came off right away, no sweat.  He also told me when I put oil in the oil hole for the crankshaft, I should rotate the handwheel until the wick in the cap of the connecting rod is directly under the oil hole, so the wick will move the oil to the crankshaft bearing.  He said most machines are made with an oil wick in the crankshaft cap. Those Singer engineers were sure clever!.

 

 

Now that it's sewing, I'll go ahead and clean it.

Jimi, what is that "diluted paint thinner" you use to remove those outer layers of paint?

Thanks again all.

Edited January 31, 2018 by Evo160K