1911 Thumbreak Question

[larry1096]

Hello,

 

I seldom make holsters with thumbreaks, but as I've been working on designs for a few shoulder holsters, have had to incorporate them in those designs.

For most striker fired guns, it's not a problem, but for a 1911 (and in particular, a Springfield EMP) it's been difficult; I find the snap mounted to the thumbreak (the part the thumb actuates, as opposed to the strap side which wraps around the gun) is landing right *on* the safety lever. This causes snapping the break in place to occasionally push the safety to the 'off' position, which is obviously not acceptable.

 

I"m wondering if anyone would be able to share where the snap side of their breaks (especially in shoulder holsters) is generally placed, and a photo would be most appreciated, if anyone has one handy.

 

Thanks,

 

Larry

[chiefjason]

I made my shoulder holster vertical to avoid a snap.  lol  Being a CZ 75b, the length pushed me that direction too.  

When I deal with revolvers and woods holsters I usually put the snap on the outside.  You could possible do that here.  Shoulder holsters are not know for quick draw anyway.  The snap on a vertical holster is outside the holster, not a thumb break.  

You could also run the snap higher to the top of the slide away from the safety.  Or on the opposite end, wrap it around the beavertail instead of over the hammer.  

[Dwight]

I no longer make horizontal shoulder holsters, . . . but the pictures show how I did the thumb snap on them.  This was one I did just messing around, . . . but it suffices to show how I did it.

For vertical shoulder holsters, . . . I make a strap with two snaps, one on each end, . . . so it can be snapped across the trigger guard.  The  piece of Kydex on the end of it gives either the forefinger on the shooting hand the ability to unsnap it rather quickly, . . . or if it is on the other side of the holster, . . . the thumb, . . . or the fingertips of the off hand can undo the strap.

All of these retention means work well for me without the problem you seemed to have.

May God bless,

Dwight

[Josh Ashman]

Hey Larry, I know just what you're talking about! The problem seems worse when the pistol has an extended thumb safety, GI style aren't quite as bad, at least not for me. I've tried moving mine "up" towards the top of the slide as shown in the pic below. Another option is to leave the thumbreak off and put in a retention screw at the toe of the holster near the end of the barrel. 

I've not messed around with an EMP, but I would imagine that they have even less room to work with as they are a scaled down 1911 in very rough terms. 

Good luck getting your pattern nailed down. 

Josh

[larry1096]

Thanks for the replies. I've tried moving it up on the slide, but there's not enough room to feel comfortable the strap is securing the weapon in the holster properly-it can 'pop' over the top of the slide.

I tried moving it downward below the safety, with an extra long thumb paddle and reinforcement, but it lost too much leverage at the snap. At the rate I'm going through prototypes, we're all going to to have to eat a couple extra cheeseburgers to avoid a leather shortage....

 

Larry

Edited January 29, 2018 by larry1096

[byggyns]

I think the key with the straps at the slide under the hammer is to have the retention strap be integral to the main body piece of the holster. a nice curve in the cut up to the slide should keep the strap down and prevent it from jumping over the back of the slide. I've carried my Ultra CDP (3" barrel) in a Bianchi shoulder rig with the first style of retention strap that Dwight showed. I haven't had any issue with the strap moving around, popping open, or messing with the safety. I'm not doing gymnastics with it on, it's my rig for when I'm wearing a suit.

Edited January 29, 2018 by byggyns

[Dwight]

I always like a puzzle, . . . and this one had me puzzled.  

But when I saw Josh's holster, . . . the light came on.  I could not figure why I was not having any trouble with my safety, . . . but other's were.

I did not "design it", . . . it is one of those things that falls in place, . . . sometimes by good fortune more than by critical engineering.

My snap is placed a little more forward on the weapon and a little lower.  What happens there, . . . when the thumb is attempting to put the snap together, . . . it is actually pushing up on the bottom side of the safety, . . . attempting to push the safety further "on".  

In Josh's, . . . I'm thinking that a hard push on making the snap come together, . . . just might dislodge the safety.  Not sure that is the case, . . . but it seemed reasonable.

I did a little picture of what I think "might be" happening, . . . if the snap is put at the red position, . . . it might cause a problem, . . . but it should not in the green position.

What do you think?

May God bless,

Dwight

[Josh Ashman]

I think you're on to something Dwight! In my quest to get "away" from the thumb safety I might be making the problem worse! Next one I try Instead of going away, I should go up and under it.

All the best, 

Josh

[larry1096]

Dwight, that's a very helpful diagram, and sums up the issue nicely.

 

The problem, at least with the EMP, is that the slide is shorter (top to bottom) than a standard 1911, and with an extended safety, placing the snap on 'top' of the safety as shown throws it *way* out away from the pistol. That's why my last attempt moved the snap forward (toward the muzzle) a bit, but was too far from the thumbreak to operate correctly. <sigh>

 

If I do this photo right, it might show how little real estate there seems to be for the snap, or at least a 'normal' snap: 

 

Again, thanks for the suggestions; I'm still trying to formulate a pattern that might work-

 

Larry