Leather Carving Styles....

[bikermutt07]

So, I got a little inspired by Don Gonzales' videos in YouTube. And I'm considering trying to tool again. But, I'm not really into the country and western themes. I thought about my English heritage, but nothing from history really survived. At least according to Wikipedia. I know there is Celtic and carving from Japan. But, where else? When I do a search in Google all I get is places to buy tools.

Any insight? Thanks

[Sheilajeanne]

We have a sea chest in our family from the first Jeffery to come to Canada, in the late 1800's. He came from a small town near Winchester. The chest is decorated with Tudor roses. 

That might be something you can use.  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tudor_rose

[Mattsbagger]

10 minutes ago, Sheilajeanne said:

We have a sea chest in our family from the first Jeffery to come to Canada, in the late 1800's. He came from a small town near Winchester. The chest is decorated with Tudor roses. 

That might be something you can use.  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tudor_rose

My wife lived in Winchester for 12 yrs. It's a beautiful place. The cathedral is amazing. But I digress. Mutt, carve anything you want. There are some pages I found on Facebook for leather working and there is a guy that does HD engines. I think if you draw it it can be carved. A family great would be cool.

[bikermutt07]

Maybe I should just go back to my old black on white roots. I used to draw in my teens. People always called it tribal though. It wasn't of course, it was mine.

[Bigfoote]

Use the term "line drawing" when you search on google images, tons of stuff on there, I use it all the time. Easy to get back into the swing of using your swivel knife. Make a bunch of coasters out of a cheap belly for practice, not sure what other use bellys are?

 

[Mattsbagger]

Also could do inverse carving.

[bermudahwin]

Hi bikermutt

My first foray into leather goods was a in 1977, when I was asked to make some stuff for a club in England. Prior to that I had done pewter work and copperwork.

I spent ages with little success other than mediaeval tiles or religious grafitti. Moving forward you could look at the Tudor roses and similar, then you're into te-enactment era, and they'd have more than me.

Pictish Keys and Celtic knotwork took my fancy so I moved onto that, rather than keep looking at Roses.  More natural, and bestiary designs were more common in English Churches.

The Roses are simplified, and the keys and knots are linework, but can be interesting.

A good source for one off designs may be from book plate scans or the Victoria and Albert online.

I will try to see more tomorrow.

Harry

 

Edited February 18, 2018 by hwinbermuda

[bermudahwin]

Just looked up Tudor Rose Outline on Google images, and a number came up, that would make good "English" coasters

H

Edited February 18, 2018 by hwinbermuda

[Mattsbagger]

tudor rose line drawing - Google Search
https://www.google.com/search?q=tudor+rose+line+drawing&client=ms-android-verizon&prmd=imsvn&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&fir=9x6eh27VLjEofM%3A%2CIvKijLTjmq6vMM%2C_%3BuU3p4Ry2vp3zhM%3A%2C0cKSEl7U6wn3DM%2C_%3BD_abzEsusmJsdM%3A%2CqEyKusjxDNPn1M%2C_%3BZy6OXhiyan2avM%3A%2CqcEwJw3hdBzhGM%2C_%3BAJ9u-wJk3AWxBM%3A%2CNhlIa1lskgq0FM%2C_%3BymOdydy8k5MZhM%3A%2CaIZZZLl9bIHlHM%2C_%3B3DIUX8s78trwjM%3A%2CO3McBocWtcsUqM%2C_%3Ba6ZpoeozEl77aM%3A%2C0cKSEl7U6wn3DM%2C_%3BrCI0kCxGmGgtnM%3A%2CDMjWxKSdxMq7WM%2C_%3B6O6kMHli2m_u0M%3A%2CGsDeymu-O26V2M%2C_&usg=__wrAXRhLDjOP3yye9eOGMucZ81uc%3D&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwj4-am6qrDZAhVNw2MKHbMCCo0Q7AkIPQ&biw=360&bih=560

[bikermutt07]

Thanks guys. I'll look into some different line drawing searches. I'm not so into the rose idea. Maybe I will have to just play and come up with my own style. We'll see.

[DJole]

A lot of what people identify as "Celtic" (especially knotwork) is actually Anglo Saxon or Germanic in origin. Viking art is often pretty distinct from the Anglo Saxon stuff
Looking on internet image searches, If you want the actual historical motifs and designs, you will have a difficult time figuring out what is the real stuff. 
Or you could look for the British Museum Pattern books, which use line drawings taken from historical artifacts from the cultures in question:
Early Celtic Designs by Ian Stead and Karen Hughes is a nice collection of actual Celtic designs from the 5th C BC to the 1st century AD (thus avoiding the Celtic/Anglo Saxon knotwork). I've got this one on my shelf in the other room. 
The British Museum Pattern books also include the following (in no particular order):

• African Designs
• Ancient Egyptian Designs
• Early Medieval Designs
• Islamic Designs
• North American Indian Designs
• Roman Designs
• Greek Designs

Iain Bain's famous Celtic Knotwork book is a nice mixture of historical patterns and instructions of how to make your own. He also points out that what we call "Celtic" when referring to knotwork is a conglomeration of cultural art motifs. 

Looking at illustrations from medieval illuminated manuscripts is a great way to get ideas, too. (see here: http://djole.altervista.org/djole/Publications/Leather/NativityPix/LeatherNativity.htm)
Woodcuts are great for leather, since the lines used to both cut wood and leather are similar (<http://djole.altervista.org/djole/Publications/Leather/SerpentBox/SerpentBox.htm>
I've used the Bayeux Tapestry as well. (http://djole.altervista.org/djole/Publications/Leather/Pouch/CometPouch-1.htm)

You could do a google search for "celtic motifs" or "anglo saxon motifs" and get better results than when searching for "XX art"

You could also look for books from the Dover Pictorial Archive (such as Viking Designs or Celtic and Old Norse Designs). These ones are not for the person who wants authenticity, though. 

That might be enough to get  you going for a while. 

[Instinctive]

My go to now is tribal tattoo patterns in what ever subject I want to carve. Once I find a design, I tweak it to be suitable for carving. I found them excellent for skill development. "Line" drawing look simple, your swivel knife and beveling skills get elevated really quickly.

Be sure to get yourself a set of modelling tools. Very helpful to add the finishing touches (and fixing a bad bevel line).

[bikermutt07]

2 hours ago, DJole said:

A lot of what people identify as "Celtic" (especially knotwork) is actually Anglo Saxon or Germanic in origin. Viking art is often pretty distinct from the Anglo Saxon stuff
Looking on internet image searches, If you want the actual historical motifs and designs, you will have a difficult time figuring out what is the real stuff. 
Or you could look for the British Museum Pattern books, which use line drawings taken from historical artifacts from the cultures in question:
Early Celtic Designs by Ian Stead and Karen Hughes is a nice collection of actual Celtic designs from the 5th C BC to the 1st century AD (thus avoiding the Celtic/Anglo Saxon knotwork). I've got this one on my shelf in the other room. 
The British Museum Pattern books also include the following (in no particular order):

• African Designs
• Ancient Egyptian Designs
• Early Medieval Designs
• Islamic Designs
• North American Indian Designs
• Roman Designs
• Greek Designs

Iain Bain's famous Celtic Knotwork book is a nice mixture of historical patterns and instructions of how to make your own. He also points out that what we call "Celtic" when referring to knotwork is a conglomeration of cultural art motifs. 

Looking at illustrations from medieval illuminated manuscripts is a great way to get ideas, too. (see here: http://djole.altervista.org/djole/Publications/Leather/NativityPix/LeatherNativity.htm)
Woodcuts are great for leather, since the lines used to both cut wood and leather are similar (<http://djole.altervista.org/djole/Publications/Leather/SerpentBox/SerpentBox.htm>
I've used the Bayeux Tapestry as well. (http://djole.altervista.org/djole/Publications/Leather/Pouch/CometPouch-1.htm)

You could do a google search for "celtic motifs" or "anglo saxon motifs" and get better results than when searching for "XX art"

You could also look for books from the Dover Pictorial Archive (such as Viking Designs or Celtic and Old Norse Designs). These ones are not for the person who wants authenticity, though. 

That might be enough to get  you going for a while. 

Thanks for all the links.

38 minutes ago, Instinctive said:

My go to now is tribal tattoo patterns in what ever subject I want to carve. Once I find a design, I tweak it to be suitable for carving. I found them excellent for skill development. "Line" drawing look simple, your swivel knife and beveling skills get elevated really quickly.

Be sure to get yourself a set of modelling tools. Very helpful to add the finishing touches (and fixing a bad bevel line).

I'm pretty set on the tool end less the good swivel knife.

[YinTx]

6 hours ago, bikermutt07 said:

Maybe I should just go back to my old black on white roots. I used to draw in my teens. People always called it tribal though. It wasn't of course, it was mine.

This.  Do this.  You will already have an artistic bent that allows you to understand and be inspired by what you are trying to accomplish, and your work will be yours.  It may not start out looking like you intend, but you will quickly progress after a few practice pieces to a place where you are improving on your own work.  It will be unique, and I think folks gravitate towards that.  Just my thoughts.

YinTx

[bikermutt07]

3 minutes ago, YinTx said:

This.  Do this.  You will already have an artistic bent that allows you to understand and be inspired by what you are trying to accomplish, and your work will be yours.  It may not start out looking like you intend, but you will quickly progress after a few practice pieces to a place where you are improving on your own work.  It will be unique, and I think folks gravitate towards that.  Just my thoughts.

YinTx

Thanks, Y.

[glamb]

How about tattoo books?

[bikermutt07]

6 hours ago, glamb said:

How about tattoo books?

I have thought about those too. Thanks.

[kiwican]

I have a few tattoo books for this very reason 

[HaloJones]

+1 for tattoo books, great practice for tracing and tooling

[johnv474]

There is a great book available free online called Handbook of Ornament, by Meyer.  He was a professor of architecture, I think.  The book is from the early 1900s and goes through the types of design / decoration people have used since ancient times to more modern.

There are tons of illustrations of geometric (think: Middle Eastern mosaic tiles), animal, plant, etc., with explanations. From it I was able to invent a few patterns and invent a couple of crest/shield type designs.

Edited February 20, 2018 by johnv474

[bermudahwin]

25 minutes ago, johnv474 said:

There is a great book available free online called Handbook of Ornament, by Meyer.  He was a professor of architecture, I think.  The book is from the early 1900s and goes through the types of design / decoration people have used since ancient times to more modern.

There are tons of illustrations of geometric (think: Middle Eastern mosaic tiles), animal, plant, etc., with explanations. From it I was able to invent a few patterns and invent a couple of crest/shield type designs.

Just downloaded it from archive.org along with a couple of others, great call, thanks

Harry

[chrisash]

Biker

In the Uk we have Gargoyle:  (drains from churches roofs to take the water away from the stonework) these all have very ugly head shapes and may well make a good subject

Not sure if they are just English or also in Europe

Tudor or earlier wall paper may have some nice flower designs and also canal boats had painted flow designs (Canal Art) on the cabin doors, buckets and water buckets

Hope these idea's give some inspiration

 

[Dun]

Bikermutt, i never really cared about carving either but now my wife wants a punk star wars jacket so we are coming up with ideas still. This was from the first test.

[bikermutt07]

Thanks for sharing @Dun and @chrisash.

[koreric75]

Next time we get together we could break out the tooling stuff, I have some "not western style" craftaids and such to use.