Stiching thinner leather <3/4oz

[Bodra]

Hello folkes, i've got a bit of a problem here...when saddle stiching leather that is greater than 4 oz in thicknes i get my zig-zag on both sides nice and neat, but when stiching thinner leather i get zig-zag on backside ( where 1st needle going through ) and on my front side ( where stiching marks are made by pricking iron ) i get straight stich line. My setup is French style pricking iron 3mm ( 9spi ) and 0.55mm waxed poly thread. I even experimented with different sizes awls ( 2mm and 2.8mm in width ) and i get exactly the same result, i get left only with bigger hole when using 2.8mm awl. Do i need to get thinner thread, is 0.55mm thread to thick ? or to change stiching technique ?

My saddle stiching technique is the same as in video. You can skip to 4:20

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q2lDExF5NbE&t=309s

My goal is to have end result something like this ( I hope you can see on picture that there is zig-zag on both sides and this leather cannot be thicker than 4oz, max 5 )

 

[bikermutt07]

Look up Leodis Leather on YouTube. He has a video called neatening up your saddle stitch. 

[Webicons]

Can’t stress how important it is to have a well defined hole on the back side.  When using your awl (I’m assuming you have a flat awl because you’re using French irons) make sure it goes through and way past your exit. 

Hammering your stitch line helps quite a bit when working with thin leathers.  Lines that look strait will sometimes angle when hit.

When pulling your thread tight lift your left hand up and away and your right hand down and towards you while pulling taut.  

[Bodra]

11 hours ago, bikermutt07 said:

Look up Leodis Leather on YouTube. He has a video called neatening up your saddle stitch. 

Watched his whole channel, learned a lot from him. I tried his way aswell. Thanks for recommendation tho. 

 

As for awl...i use diamod shaped ones and i pull my right hand down and left hand up and after stiching i hammer my stich. I think i will experiment with different spi's and thread sizes. Maybe there is not enough room for thread to twist and angle itself or distance is to close with 9spi. Really dont know... I hope ill found best combo with thread size and spi.

[bikermutt07]

Since you watched the video, here is what I found for myself. I was getting the zig zag on the back and the straight on the front, when trying to cast the loop. I think I was doing it wrong.

After watching Nigel's review on the Wuta irons, I realized what I was doing, in essence, was causing my stitches to be stitched backwards.

Now, I pick a front side. Front needle goes to the bottom of the hole. Back needle goes to the top. And, I quit worrying about the back. As long as it is in a straight line, I'm good with it. Here is an example.

 

[KingsCountyLeather]

I’ve had the same problem and I’m not entirely happy with my stitches yet.

Here’s something for you to try...

If you’re right handed. Looking at the front of your project where you’ve marked your holes, (but this time start with your stitching close to you and work your way back) put your first needle through from the back, then cross your needles (right hand needle on the back of the first needle) pull the thread down to the bottom of the hole and pass the other needle at the back (top) of the same hole. Do NOT cast your thread over the needle but do pull up on the thread in your left hand and down on your right hand. Don’t pull too tightly on thin leather.

I know this is not the way everyone else is thought, but like You I’ve been having problems with my stitches. I watched a video of a very good leather worker do it this way. It has worked for me. But you must be consistent with your holes, and the way you produce every stitch. When you’re finished tap the stitches lightly with your hammer on a marble slab.

Ger.

[KingsCountyLeather]

21 hours ago, Bodra said:

Watched his whole channel, learned a lot from him. I tried his way aswell. Thanks for recommendation tho. 

 

As for awl...i use diamod shaped ones and i pull my right hand down and left hand up and after stiching i hammer my stich. I think i will experiment with different spi's and thread sizes. Maybe there is not enough room for thread to twist and angle itself or distance is to close with 9spi. Really dont know... I hope ill found best combo with thread size and spi.

This belt I’m making is using the technique i described above. I used 4mm irons and .8mm tiger thread.

[billybopp]

When you're saddle stitching and looking for that zig-zag look, there is an interplay of leather thickness, hole size and thread thickness.  In a nutshell, the thread has to have enough room to cross past itself in the hole, and that's harder with thinner leather.  If you're not getting what you expect, try thinner thread so that it has more room to cross. 

- Bill

[Bodra]

On 3/16/2018 at 11:53 AM, billybopp said:

When you're saddle stitching and looking for that zig-zag look, there is an interplay of leather thickness, hole size and thread thickness.  In a nutshell, the thread has to have enough room to cross past itself in the hole, and that's harder with thinner leather.  If you're not getting what you expect, try thinner thread so that it has more room to cross. 

- Bill

I ordered few meters of 432, 532, 632 and 832 for sample. Will test them with 9spi and seiwas 4mm irons and see if i can find sweet spot. Will post results if I find something interesting.

[Fowlingpiece]

Pardon my ignorance..I saw two references to French pricking irons...Other than a brand being made in France(Blanchard for example), what exactly are "French " pricking irons? Is this a new term to distinguish a pricking iron from the stitching irons (many made in Asia)where one punches all the way thru and then goes about lacing the thread in a separate event ? 

Thanks

[billybopp]

You are correct.  Lately, folks have been referring to pricking irons as French or European style to help differentiate from pricking/stitching chisels that punch all the way through.  It's been quite confusing for a lot of folks, particularly newbies.  Maybe that terminology will help?

- Bill

[todahatelier]

Hi, 

I have a question on thread size to use to pair with the french iron.
I'm using a French iron 10TPI. What would be the recommended thread size
for au chinos thread if I'm going for a fine classy leather look?
Should I get the 632 or 832 thread size?
 

[Outfitr]

I've watched Armitage youtubes and stitch exactly how he shows but alway get a very pronounced zig zag on the back and a less pronounced almost straight on the front.....and, I'm over it! I guess that' just the way it's going to be. It's neat I can live with it. I used to use a drill press but have switched to chisels to mark the front and an awl to poke through and it looks whole lot neater. I just don' get a real pronounced zig zag on the front.

[ABHandmade]

I'm new to the forum and I apologize for trying to give advice.
I use the technique described in the book "Al Stohlman - The Art of Hand Sewing Leather - 1977"
Step 32

It really makes the stithes more beautiful.

 

 

[Stetson912]

On 4/11/2018 at 11:20 PM, ABHandmade said:

I'm new to the forum and I apologize for trying to give advice.
I use the technique described in the book "Al Stohlman - The Art of Hand Sewing Leather - 1977"
Step 32

It really makes the stithes more beautiful.

 

 

This works for that method of stitching. This method uses a groover though. When you stitch in a groove the stitches are flat, which is why running your overstitcher over the stitching helps define them better. 

But the op is asking about stitching without a groove to get a more angled stitch. 

As Billy bopp mentioned, you'll have to use thinner thread to do this. I believe 0.6mm thread requires about 3 ml thick leather for it to angle on both sides of a piece (that are double pricked that is). 

And I believe but am not certain 100% that the backside of a piece, or whichever side doesn't have priority, will lie just a bit flatter than the other side without the double pricking method. 

[ABHandmade]

On 15.04.2018 at 5:03 AM, Stetson912 said:

This works for that method of stitching. This method uses a groover though. When you stitch in a groove the stitches are flat, which is why running your overstitcher over the stitching helps define them better. 

But the op is asking about stitching without a groove to get a more angled stitch. 

You are right - this is my mistake.

[Stetson912]

@ABHandmade, no worries. I wasn't trying to single you out or anything. I didn't mean for my comment to sound so serious haha. You should always contribute if you think you can. Don't feel like you shouldn't comment or ask questions. That's the reason for this forum.