Singer 78-3 Leather Needles

[Wizcrafts]

3 hours ago, FresnoFox said:

I ordered 135x17 needles for mine but they haven’t come in yet.

Those x17 needles are round, not leather point and may cause heat and grabbing problems. The ones you want are 135x16.

[Ipschnug]

4 hours ago, leathersmyth said:

These are the feet that are on my machines. They work for pretty much anything need to sew. They don't leave any marks on leather .

I think I have a set of those, I'll have to give them a try.  Thanks for the picture!

[FresnoFox]

8 hours ago, Wizcrafts said:

Those x17 needles are round, not leather point and may cause heat and grabbing problems. The ones you want are 135x16.

 I misspoke. Went back and looked at my order and it’s 135x16 diamond point.

[koreric75]

Good morning all, i figured this thread isn't too old to post in, i just picked up a couple of singers from a sale site for $50.  One is a 306K in table, and the other is a 78-1,  no table etc, it's also missing the foot lift bar on the back but has the spring and bottom mechanism.  It rolls nice and smooth after a little cleaning and oil, I'm curious about the needle system 16x99/100...It looks like you're using the 135x16, I want to make sure i understand correctly on the adjustment screw referenced, the screw that holds the "needle bar" (Image attached) in place, are you raising/lowering etc?

My other question is, table and motor/belt setup, what if any modifications are needed to use a servo/v-belt setup?  The machine came with a piece of round leather belt but doubt it would be enough to reach under a table even for the old treadle... I will honestly not mind hand cranking it for wallets or small items, i'll have to figure if a servo is overkill.

I'm really excited to have found these machines, I really wanted a 1206rb or a singer 111w for lighter leather, but after ~$2k for the cb3200 and accessories, mama said nope..., well technically she said, as soon as I've sold enough holsters, belts etc to cover the initial expense for the cowboy, and to cover the cost of another machine...go ahead...lol.

On a separate topic, if you fellas don't mind the 306K looks like a quantum processing super computer compared to an abacus in relation to complexity to the 78...(redacted to add to a 306K thread) apologies.

Forgot to add pics of the machine...

https://imgur.com/a/GeuAD8K

Edited May 8, 2018 by koreric75
added photos of machine

[koreric75]

On 5/8/2018 at 5:11 AM, koreric75 said:

Good morning all, i figured this thread isn't too old to post in, i just picked up a couple of singers from a sale site for $50.  One is a 306K in table, and the other is a 78-1,  no table etc, it's also missing the foot lift bar on the back but has the spring and bottom mechanism.  It rolls nice and smooth after a little cleaning and oil, I'm curious about the needle system 16x99/100...It looks like you're using the 135x16, I want to make sure i understand correctly on the adjustment screw referenced, the screw that holds the "needle bar" (Image attached) in place, are you raising/lowering etc?

My other question is, table and motor/belt setup, what if any modifications are needed to use a servo/v-belt setup?  The machine came with a piece of round leather belt but doubt it would be enough to reach under a table even for the old treadle... I will honestly not mind hand cranking it for wallets or small items, i'll have to figure if a servo is overkill.

I'm really excited to have found these machines, I really wanted a 1206rb or a singer 111w for lighter leather, but after ~$2k for the cb3200 and accessories, mama said nope..., well technically she said, as soon as I've sold enough holsters, belts etc to cover the initial expense for the cowboy, and to cover the cost of another machine...go ahead...lol.

On a separate topic, if you fellas don't mind the 306K looks like a quantum processing super computer compared to an abacus in relation to complexity to the 78...(redacted to add to a 306K thread) apologies.

Forgot to add pics of the machine...

https://imgur.com/a/GeuAD8K

@leecopp @Ipschnug so i found a buy on ebay for some 16x100 needles, I'm going to see how they look when they arrive and compare to the needle that was init when i bought the machine.  It's a leather needle with the grooved shaft and chisel point, i tried reading the numbers on the dang thing but couldn't get enough light and magnification to see em...lol  

I still realize that i will have to find another alternative, as these were the only ones i have found, currently i have a few parts removed and soaking in vaporust, that stuff works wonders and is amazing.  I plan to remove the chipped paint and rust from the bed and refinish that so it's somewhat smooth.  

I'm curious, from the build of the body, and the parts catalogue, I'm wondering if there was a setup for an oiler?  there is a large hole with a smaller (threaded maybe) hole in the middle back that runs to the rotating assembly underneath, i'll snap a photo of it and post later.  I guess it could be some sort of access for the lifter as well but haven't figured it out yet.  There aren't alot of info pics out there or IPB that i could find (illustrated parts breakout showing where the parts go on/in the machine).

[CowboyBob]

The problem with alot of the older needles is the eye in the needle are smaller than the newer ones,so you might have to bump up a size or two so the eye of the needle is large enough for the thread you want to use.The easiest way to check is thread the needle through a piece of thread & hold it vertical & see if it slides down the thread  w/o hanging up,if it does then it'll work.

[koreric75]

30 minutes ago, CowboyBob said:

The problem with alot of the older needles is the eye in the needle are smaller than the newer ones,so you might have to bump up a size or two so the eye of the needle is large enough for the thread you want to use.The easiest way to check is thread the needle through a piece of thread & hold it vertical & see if it slides down the thread  w/o hanging up,if it does then it'll work.

Thanks bob!  I've been so focused on needle length and etc, i hadn't thought ahead  to when i actually  want to put thread through it...lol.  I've been using #69 bonded nylon thread for my wallets on my singer 15-91 with a size 16 needle and have only run into issues if the needle gets sticky from glue, i've since learned to be more patient after sticking pieces together...and before to let the bond dry more and then stick.  I haven't found a sure fire way to say a size 16 needle will work with #69 tho, other than the method you described, I've had needles out of the same little pack that one would work and one wouldn't...could've been the thread as well.  

ps, @CowboyBob  you wouldn't have any old documents or pictures lying around for this machine would you?  one of the few videos i found mentioned yall, he sourced a welting foot and something else for his 78, but that was awhile back... 

[CowboyBob]

The 135x17 or 135x16D (for leather) are the same length as the 16x99 & 100.I can't seem to find any welt feet anymore BUT do have some standard flat feet in stock.

Have you seen this yet?http://parts.singerco.com/IPpartCharts/78-1.pdf

Edited May 9, 2018 by CowboyBob

[koreric75]

1 hour ago, CowboyBob said:

The 135x17 or 135x16D (for leather) are the same length as the 16x99 & 100.I can't seem to find any welt feet anymore BUT do have some standard flat feet in stock.

Have you seen this yet?http://parts.singerco.com/IPpartCharts/78-1.pdf

Awesome, that is a relief.  I have the singer Co parts list downloaded, so I know what each part looks like and can find the name of it, just not where they go once all together... Lol.  I take pictures of everything as I disassemble, and can get everything back where it belongs, was just looking for something like a maintenance or text manual with more info in it.  I don't want to do something or not do something that could ruin the internals.  I also noticed there are a few parts that changed between year models so interchangeability is another factor...I haven't found in the parts list any year identifiers, but have noticed a few special identifiers like material competition.  Thanks again for the info on the needles, that'll get me started once it's cleaned up and I see if I can get a nice stitch line hand turning it.

[koreric75]

On 4/16/2018 at 1:05 PM, leecopp said:

I adjusted my needlebar on my 78-1 (uses same needles) to utilize 29x3 (round point) (29x4 leather) needles since that is what my SInger 42-5 is using. .  You can just as easily use  the very similar (except needle has a skarf) 135x16 or 17 needles that are more modern and about the same dimensions.  This is technically a simple  1 screw adjustment  , but the challenge is getting the connection to move after being in the same position for the better part of a century.  Some combination of tapping, heating, oiling and brute force may be required.

I have a 78-3, but mostly run my 78-1.  I have note figured out what the real difference is, but I have not tried very hard .. smile ..

Some pics and such for my 78-1 are at https://sites.google.com/site/oldironmachines/home/singer-78-1

I have not tried 138 thread on my machines.  best of luck. let us know how it goes.

@leecopp you forgot cursing...lots and lots of it...lol, once it was apparent that it wasn't going to move with tapping, and oiling i removed the whole assembly.  There is also a screw on the rear of the part that slides (#1), The walking foot bar was also stuck, and the presser foot bar screw (#2) has yet to yield, I am tempted to leave it be to avoid damaging, but am worried if i don't get it out and clean it up, i'll need to adjust it at some point and will have to do this all over again.

(#3) in pic, this thing...not sure what it is, but doesn't look to serve a purpose unless it's for bobbin winding maybe?  broke off so now there is an empty hole with the threaded end sticking out...

On 5/9/2018 at 8:16 AM, CowboyBob said:

The 135x17 or 135x16D (for leather) are the same length as the 16x99 & 100.I can't seem to find any welt feet anymore BUT do have some standard flat feet in stock.

Have you seen this yet?http://parts.singerco.com/IPpartCharts/78-1.pdf

@CowboyBobWhen i finally got things freed up and oiled well, I tried checking with the 16x100 i ordered to see how it looked, the needle would not pick up the bobbin thread (p.s. the eye on that needle is super tiny...wish i would've posted here before ordering) I took the needle plate back off and removed the bobbin and the eye of the needle didn't come close to the hook so wondering if it has been adjusted previously.  A quick needle bar adjustment became a weekend project as detailed above...lol.  Are the flat feet you have the same as these?  This is what came with mine, minus the binder of course...