Questions - Shotgun cartridge belt

[noobleather]

Great work Stormdevil.

On 07/07/2018 at 7:16 AM, dikman said:

That's why I do loop-through style, much easier!

Agreed

I am working on my second lot of loading strips using your advise.

 

[dikman]

Now that looks nice. I've never bothered with anything fancy on a cartridge holder simply because it's a purely utilitarian thing. I suppose, though, it could be good practice at stamping.

[Riem]

Fabulous information in this thread, thank you! I've been asked by a friend to make him a shotgun shell belt for clay pigeon shooting. Below is the prototype I've come up with from scraps and leftovers from previous projects. Edges coloured with a sharpie, and burnished with saddle soap (yeah, on a prototype, but I want friend to sign off on the design... )

I've gone the route of hand stitching the loops, as I don't have the punches needed for the slots, and cutting it instead of punching would have been a recipe for disaster.

Belt will be 4 mm vegtan, 80 mm wide, with 10 mm "stop strip" stitched 7 mm below the loops. Loops will be cut from 1.4 - 1.6 mm calfskin vegtan, 50 mm wide.

And here is the back (unlined, of course). Stitching looks a bit wonky, and that vague glimmer of red? 100% natural, biodegradable dye pumping through my veins... Still enough of it left to allow me to type this posting!

I'm still undecided about lining it at the back - what would you recommend? I'd be interested in reasoning other than esthetics - I'd love to line with calfskin, but haven't got enough of the length to laminate the back.

 

[dikman]

Are you talking about making a full belt or a slide?

[Riem]

6 minutes ago, dikman said:

Are you talking about making a full belt or a slide?

Full belt. I'm not skilled enough at stamping and tooling to do much embellishment though.

[dikman]

4 mm is thick enough by itself for the belt unless you want it stiffer, in which case a thinner lining would do that. As for the aesthetics, some like a smooth lined finish, some like the rough finish, it all depends what the buyer wants. Are you going to dye it, as that will stiffen it a bit? It's going to be a fair bit of work keeping the stitch lines nice and straight if you're doing a lot of loops.

[garypl]

I have never seen the need to put a strip under the loops to stop the shells.  I make them a snug fit and they hold the shells securely even after several years of use.  Might save you another step!

Gary

[dikman]

For cowboy action shooting you want them a bit loose in the loops, otherwise they don't like being pulled out in a hurry. The bottom strip is useful in that case. My last one I made using 2-shell pockets, that way you don't need the strip - but they're a bit more work to make.

[noobleather]

23 hours ago, dikman said:

Now that looks nice. I've never bothered with anything fancy on a cartridge holder simply because it's a purely utilitarian thing. I suppose, though, it could be good practice at stamping.

Thanks Dikman

I have a stamping addiction lol and it covers up a lot of my mistakes.

I am currently using a belt with 2 shell pockets,very easy to use. I am guessing they are wet formed around some dowl? Never tried to make em as wet molding still seems out of my league.

[dikman]

Yep, dowel or a couple of dummy shotgun rounds (I have dummy rounds made up for all my calibres). I made a paper pattern first (lot of trial-and-error) then use that to cut the pocket leather. The pocket is then stitched to the belt or slide. I then dye it, which makes it fairly supple, insert the dowels/shells and form it over them. To form the "valley" between the shells I lay a piece of dowel on the leather between the shells and lightly clamp it in place. When it's all dried the pockets keep their shape.

[noobleather]

1 hour ago, dikman said:

Yep, dowel or a couple of dummy shotgun rounds (I have dummy rounds made up for all my calibres). I made a paper pattern first (lot of trial-and-error) then use that to cut the pocket leather. The pocket is then stitched to the belt or slide. I then dye it, which makes it fairly supple, insert the dowels/shells and form it over them. To form the "valley" between the shells I lay a piece of dowel on the leather between the shells and lightly clamp it in place. When it's all dried the pockets keep their shape.

Thank you very much for that information.Have to buy some dowel and give it a go.pattern for the pocket leather should be tricky. Oh well practice practice.

[Riem]

9 hours ago, dikman said:

4 mm is thick enough by itself for the belt unless you want it stiffer, in which case a thinner lining would do that. As for the aesthetics, some like a smooth lined finish, some like the rough finish, it all depends what the buyer wants. Are you going to dye it, as that will stiffen it a bit? It's going to be a fair bit of work keeping the stitch lines nice and straight if you're doing a lot of loops.

I'm still a bit undecided about the lining - maybe dye as you suggested. Even if I don't dye, I'll apply some sort of acrylic (since it's a gift, the recipient won't have too much say about the final look! ) which will also stiffen it a bit. I'm no stranger to hand stitching, it's all I know. Attached is a picture of a carry strap I've completed recently, from the same hide as I'll cut the belt. This one was vinegarooned and also hand stitched.

 

Edited July 10, 2018 by Riem
Removed duplicate picture

[Riem]

11 hours ago, garypl said:

I have never seen the need to put a strip under the loops to stop the shells.  I make them a snug fit and they hold the shells securely even after several years of use.  Might save you another step!

Gary

Although I'm not particularly keen on adding the strip I'm concerned about the loops stretching over time. The calfskin I'll be using for the loops is rather soft and I think there's a possibility that the cartridges will fit loosely after some use. Perhaps the stop strip is more for my own sense of comfort than for actual mitigation of the risk of a cartridge dropping through...

BTW, the stamping on the loops really makes it pop - lovely! I'm going to test a few of the stamps I have to see if there's any that I can use on this strap...

[garypl]

25 minutes ago, Riem said:

Although I'm not particularly keen on adding the strip I'm concerned about the loops stretching over time. The calfskin I'll be using for the loops is rather soft and I think there's a possibility that the cartridges will fit loosely after some use. Perhaps the stop strip is more for my own sense of comfort than for actual mitigation of the risk of a cartridge dropping through...

BTW, the stamping on the loops really makes it pop - lovely! I'm going to test a few of the stamps I have to see if there's any that I can use on this strap...

Riem, if you are using calfskin for the loops then stretching may be a concern.  I use 4-5 oz veg tan and they don’t stretch much if at all.

I agree with Dikman that shells need to be slightly loose for cowboy shooting.  Mine are all used just to hold extra shells while trap, skeet or sporting clays shooting and I am never in a hurry to reload!

Gary

[dikman]

Gary, I reckon making them for trap, skeet etc would be much easier! It's finicky trying to get just the right amount of tension to stop them falling out and yet still make them easy to remove. The pocket method looks neater but is more work than just sewing a strip underneath.

Riem, you could also use slightly elasticated webbing instead of leather, then you wouldn't need the strip underneath?

[plinkercases]

CAS ammo belts and slides also tend to sit the shells higher on the belt so they actaully have a portion of the shell above the top of the belt so you can slip your thumb in behind two shells at a time. The strip below helps ensure tue high seat. For any other range, hunting or non loading spead related discipline I think the rule generally is to seat the shell a firmly as is functional so loops or pockets alone can do the trick to the shooters personal preference.

[Riem]

9 hours ago, dikman said:

Riem, you could also use slightly elasticated webbing instead of leather, then you wouldn't need the strip underneath?

Friend is also a bit of a leather aficionado, and has stated his preference for an "all leather" shell belt. I do have webbing available but he'll be disappointed and probably not use the belt. Besides, I'd like to give it a go with leather.

[Riem]

6 hours ago, plinkercases said:

CAS ammo belts and slides also tend to sit the shells higher on the belt so they actaully have a portion of the shell above the top of the belt so you can slip your thumb in behind two shells at a time. The strip below helps ensure tue high seat. For any other range, hunting or non loading spead related discipline I think the rule generally is to seat the shell a firmly as is functional so loops or pockets alone can do the trick to the shooters personal preference.

He needs the belt mainly for clay pigeon shooting, where speed is definitely an issue so the requirement for the shells to ride high is there. I've had a look at a few commercially available belts from both a local manufacturer and of Chinese import. Both were advertised as "action shooting" belts and both had the stop strip below the loops. Even though it will be a lot of stitching I think I'll add the strip.

[VMX]

There is such option ...

 

[Riem]

8 hours ago, VMX said:

There is such option ...

 

Wow, that's an interesting design - it's a pity I've cut the leather already else I might just have gone for such a type of construction. The scan is a bit small, and I can't figure out the 5th diagram from the right?

[dikman]

Looks like it's "double-stacked" in the 3rd and 4th pics. That's an interesting idea, I'm trying to get my head around it and wondering how (or if) it would work for CAS.

[plinkercases]

My read of the CAS rules is that it would not be allowed as the loops would not be in a "single row" and not of a tradition design and the rule about slides over loops may imply no layering...and most clearly the ammo loops can't move the ammo out from the body as the double stack does here. (interestingly enough for many of us once you put the ammo belt below your belly button everything tilts out BUT at least is still conforming to the bodies contour... loop hole there... hee hee)

... I also think functionally it wont work as the rows would interfere with the retrieval of each other even if you dropped the front row down..

• Ammunition required for reloads during the course of any stage must be carried on the shooter’s person in a bandoleer, cartridge/shotshell belt loop, pouch, holster, or pocket or be safely staged as required by stage instructions. Leather belt slide ammo loops are acceptable; however, shotgun shell slides may not be worn over shotgun loops on an ammo belt. Shotgun loops must be in a single row. Rifle and revolver ammunition may not be carried in a shotshell loop. No ammunition may be carried in the mouth, ears, nose, cleavage, or any other bodily orifice.
• Bandoleers, cartridge belts, and pouches must be of traditional design (e.g., bandoleers must be loose and not secured in any way to prevent movement). Modern drop pouches, combat style shotgun loops, wrist or forearm bandoleers, and such are not allowed. Pouches shall have a flap and must carry their contents loose, with no special provisions to organize the contents for rapid retrieval. .
• Cartridge loops must not have a metal or plastic liner. However, the entire loop may be made of metal

• • Shotgun ammo loops may not accommodate more than two rounds per loop, and rifle/revolver ammo loops shall accommodate only one round per loop.

  • Ammo belts must be worn so all ammo is positioned at or below the belly button.

  • Shotgun ammo loops must conform to the shooters contour (i.e., not tilt out from the belt).

  • Cartridge loops mounted on a firearm’s stock or forearm, are not allowed.

[dikman]

The "single row" bit seems to rule out double-stacking. If not for this I think it could work if there was a gap between each double stack, although it might be a bit of a challenge to actually make!

As for the tilting part, Red Cent has posted a solution to this somewhere on here which effectively angles the loops out slightly, and he has had it confirmed that it doesn't breach any rules.

[chrisash]

Off the subject a bit, but I am confused by all this

I shoot clay's in both sporting and skeet in the UK and nobody ever uses a shotgun belt , just either a pocket or a belt attached pouch that holds the cartridges

The only people who use a cartridge belt is for  walk up shoots and wildfowlers

What is different in the USA

[VMX]

I am sorry... I proposed a variant of the cell with the bottom.

At 5 position--the triangular head nail rivet.