Getting Black to Stay True Black!

[koreric75]

8 minutes ago, farmkidkoko said:

Thanks for the feedback, everyone!  Very helpful.

This was a strip of leather I bought from Tandy a couple years ago - just veg tanned.  I didn't put anything on it prior to using the black dye (spirits).  When that failed, I called in the antique and when that failed, I went with Eco Flo black dye.  Lots of drying in between.  The residue that's left behind is, in my experience, because of all the layers.

I'm not sure if there's any salvaging this piece, but I've "been there, done that" so many times with black, I figured I might as well reach out and see how I can improve my method.  I like the blue/purple idea and the reminder to dry, dry, dry is a good one - it's easy to get impatient when the project just needs to get done! 

Hmm, dunno on that one... Did you dampen the leather before the first dye?  I don't know if that would make a difference, just curious...

[farmkidkoko]

5 hours ago, koreric75 said:

Hmm, dunno on that one... Did you dampen the leather before the first dye?  I don't know if that would make a difference, just curious...

No I didn't.  I've never even thought of that!  Do you do it?

[Bodean]

I don't. it doesn't make a difference in your situation any way. Just a suggestion. Take a small scrap piece of the leather you are using and test the dye out first before using it on your piece. It can give you an indication of how it will turn out ahead of time. We live and learn, lol.

[BDAZ]

I took a close look at your work and the problem is simple...sharks don't live in Alberta! Actually it looks like you have a layer of something preventing the dye from penetrating the surface. The acrylic paint is more adhesive but you may find it also chips or peels off.

This week I had a wholesale order for 24 cases in brown, black, russet and natural. I always use drum dyed Wicket and Craig drum dyed veg tanned for colors and whatever I have lying around for the natural. I was edge coating the 24th item, a natural,  and it dripped ..waaaa.

I decided to try to dye the case black with USMC. It had no treatment other than having been cased, stamped then dried and wet formed and dried again. I slathered on the USMC using a wool dauber so it thoroughly soaked in and let it dry. I then gave it a second coat and let it dry thoroughly in the AZ sun (5% humidity and 103F).

I then buffed off the excess dye, making sure there was sold black below the excess. I then sponged on 50% resolene, which was absorbed into the dyed layer, dried again and the result was perfect. Better in fact, than the drum dyed. Last coat was a Feibings spray wax. Took less than 1/2 hour, plus dry time,  to save the case  and keep the customer happy. He sells more blacks than natural.

I have also noticed that different hides from Tandy take dyes differently. I have learned that it doesn't pay to use crappy materials. Only cheapskates can afford to make things twice.

Bob

[chiefjason]

Fiebings Pro Oil Black.  I have never had a problem with it on the grain side.  Sometimes it takes a couple times to get the flesh side a good black, it wants to turn a blue if it's not dyed well.  But even then, it usually evens up when I apply finish to the flesh side.  I usually dampen my leather first, seems to help it go on better.  I do a lot of holsters with uneven dyeing, I like the character.  Except black, that is all or nothing.  And the Pro Oil has never let me down.  

[koreric75]

8 hours ago, farmkidkoko said:

No I didn't.  I've never even thought of that!  Do you do it?

I will on some pieces, I have some economy tooling leather that was dry as cardboard, before doing anything once I cut out my piece I applied some olive or jojoba oil, not a whole lot, just a couple of light coats, let it sit over night, then I'll case the leather so what I need to do for tooling, before I dye it I clean the surface with deglazer or lemon juice or whatever I have that fits. Once that is done I'll dye it, depending on the project either dauber, rag, sponge or air brush.  Here's a belt I did for my son, it's thinner for his band pants, but the black came out good.  It was some 4/5 oz Tandy veg from a double shoulder I think...

[TheCyberwolfe]

Upvote for dampening the leather before dying. Dry leather is dense and will tend to prevent the dye from penetrating. If you dampen it, the fibers loosen up and that wetness helps the dye penetrate deeper into the leather for a better color.

Spirit dyes specifically need a little help in this area. The Fiebing's Pro dye is an oil-based colorant in a spirit-based medium, while USMC Black and its brethren are essentially just a powder floating in the spirit medium. If you apply spirit dyes to dry leather, the dye won't penetrate and you'll get a lot of rub-off after it dries. The Pro Oil dye penetrates better, but I still get better results with damp leather.

The guy who taught me recommended the Pro dye, and to apply neatsfoot oil the day before you dye, and let it sit overnight. Apply the dye, and let it sit overnight. Maybe go for a second coat on the third day if it needs it after buffing a bit.

For the USMC Black, my best results were to use Dye-Prep, then add a few drops of a leather conditioner to the dye, and apply the USMC while the leather was still damp. The guys at Springfield Leather did a video on black dyes that went over this process:

 

[skinhacker]

On 5/10/2018 at 12:02 AM, BDAZ said:

I took a close look at your work and the problem is simple...sharks don't live in Alberta! Actually it looks like you have a layer of something preventing the dye from penetrating the surface. The acrylic paint is more adhesive but you may find it also chips or peels off.

This week I had a wholesale order for 24 cases in brown, black, russet and natural. I always use drum dyed Wicket and Craig drum dyed veg tanned for colors and whatever I have lying around for the natural. I was edge coating the 24th item, a natural,  and it dripped ..waaaa.

I decided to try to dye the case black with USMC. It had no treatment other than having been cased, stamped then dried and wet formed and dried again. I slathered on the USMC using a wool dauber so it thoroughly soaked in and let it dry. I then gave it a second coat and let it dry thoroughly in the AZ sun (5% humidity and 103F).

I then buffed off the excess dye, making sure there was sold black below the excess. I then sponged on 50% resolene, which was absorbed into the dyed layer, dried again and the result was perfect. Better in fact, than the drum dyed. Last coat was a Feibings spray wax. Took less than 1/2 hour, plus dry time,  to save the case  and keep the customer happy. He sells more blacks than natural.

I have also noticed that different hides from Tandy take dyes differently. I have learned that it doesn't pay to use crappy materials. Only cheapskates can afford to make things twice.

Bob

what kind of cases.  Shotshell?

 

[BDAZ]

Musical instrument cases. The largest is around 30"

 

Bob

[farmkidkoko]

On ‎2018‎-‎05‎-‎10 at 6:42 AM, TheCyberwolfe said:

Upvote for dampening the leather before dying. Dry leather is dense and will tend to prevent the dye from penetrating. If you dampen it, the fibers loosen up and that wetness helps the dye penetrate deeper into the leather for a better color.

Spirit dyes specifically need a little help in this area. The Fiebing's Pro dye is an oil-based colorant in a spirit-based medium, while USMC Black and its brethren are essentially just a powder floating in the spirit medium. If you apply spirit dyes to dry leather, the dye won't penetrate and you'll get a lot of rub-off after it dries. The Pro Oil dye penetrates better, but I still get better results with damp leather.

The guy who taught me recommended the Pro dye, and to apply neatsfoot oil the day before you dye, and let it sit overnight. Apply the dye, and let it sit overnight. Maybe go for a second coat on the third day if it needs it after buffing a bit.

For the USMC Black, my best results were to use Dye-Prep, then add a few drops of a leather conditioner to the dye, and apply the USMC while the leather was still damp. The guys at Springfield Leather did a video on black dyes that went over this process:

 

Ah, YouTube.  I always forget that it can teach us all things!    Thanks for posting that; it'll be helpful in the future.  And I'm definitely excited to try the wet-dyeing!