Ferdco Pro-2000 ... Which Machine Base?

[bcurrier]

Anyone know what machine this Pro-2000 is based on?  It looks mostly like an Adler 205 to me, but the front-mounted tension is atypical.  Ferdinand built the Pro-1010 that looked almost exactly like this, but I haven’t seen this version of the Pro-2000.

 

[kgg]

I think it is based on the Juki 441.

kgg

[bcurrier]

The take-up arm on a 441 is on the end face of the machine.  This one has it on the front.

[Wizcrafts]

Probably a Seiko frame.

[Uwe]

Definitely not an Adler 205 or Juki TSC-441 design. Other current machines that appear nearly identical use a "GB6-180-2" model designation, sold under Thor and Kingmax brands. Top + Bottom feed machines. I've not found an "original" manufacturer that produced this design.

I'm starting to think that Ferdco just bought semi-random lots of machines, changed out a few parts, if any, and put their seemingly home-made Ferdco stickers on it. Many Ferdco models appear to be more of a marketing/branding exercise than an engineering effort. Not much different than the current crop of clone manufacturers or badge engineering resellers like Consew. Ferdco built their reputation with the early models that were modified genuine Juki TSC-441 machines. They soon moved to cheaper, anonymous clone manufacturers. 

Here's a picture of the Thor GB6-180-2 just for comparison:

[Ken Nelson]

Ferdinand Bull was built on a Seiko that was badged Consew but wore the Ferdinand brand.  Jump foot, needle feed and a good machine.  Also known as a 900B.  I have owned 2 of them.

[bcurrier]

Ken, it’s not a 900B.  

Uwe, I had also found the Thor machine, which is clearly the same, as is the Cowboy 7205. I’ve also looked through Singer history and can’t find a match.  I’m beginning to suspect you’re right about Ferdo - at least in their later history.  What makes this interesting is the Super Bull labeling, as that’s late in Ferdinand/Ferdco’s branding, and they were still using 441 machines for the Super Bull Pro 2000 branding. 

Keystone Sewing (keysew.com) has a short Ferdinand/Ferdco history that reads as though it came from Ferdco:

”The Pro 2000 was designed by Ferdinand JeanBlanc in 1991 using a Juki 441 frame from Juki USA. In 1995 we went to a Tiawan manufacturer and had the 441 changed to our new specifications which we use now. Once the casting is delivered to us, we convert the 441 into the Super Bull Pro 2000 that you see advertised today. 
You may be familiar with some of the other proceeding versions of the Bull or heavy stitchers Ferdinand has designed and built in the past. 
These would be: 
The Chandler 305 Bull - From 1964 to 1968 
The Alder 105 Bull - From 1968 to 1979 
The Adler 205 Bull - From 1980 to 1985 
The Ferdinand 900 Bull - From 1985 to 1993 
The Juki Pro 2000 - From 1993 to 1995 
And the Ferdco Pro 2000 'Super Bull' - From 1995 to Present”

In any event, it’s a machine I think I’ll pass on, as parts and maintenance are always a concern.  That’s the beauty of the clone machine market, I guess ... keeps things alive.

[Ken Nelson]

I knew that, they actually used good machines for their conversions but some of the parts are hard to find ie the last 900B I had.

[earlthegoat2]

I was eyeballing that machine too.  In the end I decided to pass on it as well before even going to take a look.  Too far away unless I knew the price was right but the ad only states to make an offer.  Since the pedigree of the machine is in question, I don't know what to ask for it except for my standard starting bid of 100 bucks.

[Darren Brosowski]

The base Chinese machine is a GB6-182 which is a simple walking foot machine using the same shuttle as the Singer 7-5.

 

[Gregg From Keystone Sewing]

Usually these machines are a copy of Mitsubishi, Seiko, or Juki.  I can't find anything from anyone on this machine.  

 

 

[bcurrier]

21 hours ago, earlthegoat2 said:

I was eyeballing that machine too.  In the end I decided to pass on it as well before even going to take a look.  Too far away unless I knew the price was right but the ad only states to make an offer.  Since the pedigree of the machine is in question, I don't know what to ask for it except for my standard starting bid of 100 bucks.

When I first contacted the seller, I asked him about the (arbor and other) presses he had listed.  He’s keeping those.  He said he’d “definitely” deal on the Ferdco machine, though.   I asked him the lowest price he’d take for it as it’s an oddball Ferdco.  Never heard back.  

[Crookedhornedcow]

I actually bought this machine, it makes a really nice stitch and is fairly easy to use, once I got it threaded the correct way.  I'm searching now for some smaller presser feet, before grinding down the ones that I have.  Anyone have any suggestions on where some more compact presser feet could be obtained?

 

[CowboyBob]

This is more of a nylon webbing machine than for leather,feet will be hard to find because it's not a commonly used machine.You should check with Tecsew they used to sell this model & might have something.The needles,bobbins from standard 441 will fit but that's about all that will interchange.I don't remember the Model# but if you ask for the high lift 16" long cylinder arm machine with outside walking foot  & tension on the front they should know.

HTH

[Tod]

To further the discussion may I share a picture of the Pro2000 that I have. The original owner lived in Spokane, WA which was 30 minutes from the Ferdco shop from which he said this machine was there demo for shows, etc.

Would it be accurate to say this fits the specification for the Juki's used from 1993-1995?

What are the pluses/minus's of this era of if any?

Thanks,

Tod

[Swanee]

Aurora A-460 (China)

 

[Gregg From Keystone Sewing]

On 9/25/2018 at 1:34 PM, Tod said:

To further the discussion may I share a picture of the Pro2000 that I have. The original owner lived in Spokane, WA which was 30 minutes from the Ferdco shop from which he said this machine was there demo for shows, etc.

Would it be accurate to say this fits the specification for the Juki's used from 1993-1995?

What are the pluses/minus's of this era of if any?

Thanks,

Tod

This is the one we were emailing about, looks pretty good.

[Darren Brosowski]

The Cowboy equivalent is the CB7205 which is based on the GB6-182.

[bradjanuchowski]

I have a pro 1010 that looks identical to the very first picture of the super bull pro 2000. Does anyone know what presser feet will fit it.

[stelmackr]

Check with https://hoffmanbrothers.com/leather-machines/ They bought out the FERDCO machines and all the parts when FERDCO terminated their business.

[stelmackr]

On a side note for FERDCO.  I've had three of their machines: Pro-2000 (sold it), Pro-TK-1245 (phaff clone) and Pro 206H (consew clone)  In all the years I've owned them, I've never, never had a skipped stich.  What ever they did to modify the them was great.  I think their patent has run out and maybe others will pick it up and make sewing easier for all of us.

[DavidMillsSaddlery]

On 6/22/2018 at 5:51 PM, Wizcrafts said:

Probably a Seiko frame.

My Ferdinand 900b is on a Seiko, and the take up arm is on left face of machine, not like this one...

this may be on of the newer imports

[Gregg From Keystone Sewing]

See attached, this is the current Ferdco Pro 2000 version, made in China based off of the TSC-441 .  Not to be confused with a genuine made in Japan Juki model TSC-441 shown in an image above in this thread.