Tool questions: good, better & really good

[Railrider1920]

So the 6 or 8 tools I have I got from tandy, swivel cutter and some stamps. On a scale of 1-10, 10 being great, where do tandy stamps and tools fall? Are they just decent, fairly good?

What are some other brands of tools that are pretty good / good that won't break or break the bank? I was talking with immiketoo about Bob Beard tools. They sound like great tools, but I'm not likely to spend $50 or more for a single stamp. Not yet anyway.

I found a set on amazon or someplace that was about $20 for about 20-25 pieces, stamps and few other things. Is it likely a crappy  set of tools?

  I read somewhere on here about a company called something Japan, maybe Japan tools. Does this ring a bell to anyone? Decent tools?

  Are there any sets I should look at where I can get the biggest bag for my buck, but still get good tools? Where would you send someone just starting out to get tools?

Thanks, Rob 

 

[TacticallySharp]

I still have Tandy tools from my cub scout set of tools. From when I was 10 years old. I still buy an occasional tool from them.

Most of my older tools are Midaus NW gold tools. Very expensive these days.

Most of my new tools are Barry Kings. Reasonable price for great quality tools. Check them out...

The last photo shows 3 of my 7 Barry  swivel knives. 

I've added 2 more in the last year...

Edited June 24, 2018 by TacticallySharp

[JLSleather]

I often recommend these guys. https://www.ebay.com/str/proleathercarvers

The Craftool stamps they sell are the older "vintage' ones -- built far better than the stuff tandy has over the counter these days.

They also sometimes carry more expensive models, but I don't see a benefit from the higher price tag. The exception would be the geometric and basket stamps... some of those by Beard and Linnell are more CRISP impressions - which is desirable from a "pattern" design.  But for floral, figure, scenic carving, crisp is not necessary and some would say undesirable.

Each his own - all the projects shown on the site - and about a bazillon more - were tooled with the older Craftool brand stamps. http://www.jlsleather.com/gallery/

 

[immiketoo]

Rob, as a self admitted tool whore, I have a lot of experience with acquiring stamps.  From top to bottom in terms of quality and price in my experience.

Rober Beard - Blued tool steel, amazing smoothness and THE tool in figure carving for a variety of reasons.  $50-120

Wayne Jueschke - un-coated tool steel (As good or better than Beard but limited to geometric and border stamps) $50-130

Barry King - Polished stainless: Barry has nearly everything you need and has recently ventured out into some figure carving tool.  Awesome selection of geometric and BW tools.  $30-85

Old Hackbarth - Polished stainless.  Great tools from an old era.  Hard to find.  Expensive but great impressions.  $40-65

Clay Miller - Polished stainless:  Clay has a great line of tools, with great quality and impressions.  Recently added a line of figure carving tools derived from Stohlman tools. $30-55

Craftool Pro - brushed stainless:  Decent but very limited selection and generic shapes.  Very limited geometric and BW $15-40

Pro LeatherCarvers - made by Jim Linnell's son.  Stainless.  Average impressions and alignment.  limited selection.  $35 

Old pre -letter Craftool - Steel.  Great quality tools, wide variety of shapes and sizes and PROPER figure carving shapes the way Al Stohlman designed them. $4-15

New Hackbarth - Steel.  Seen them, don't see a lot of hype but good solid tools $???

Craft Japan - Decent chrome plated metal:  A step up from the basic beginner sets, crisp impressions, fairly standard shapes.  Good quality.  $7-12

Current Craftool - Chrome plated metal:  Some decent tools but inconsistent impressions and incorrect shapes for figure carving ok quality $4-7  

Midas - Zinc alloy?  Good tools, but very crafty shapes for the most part.  Almost a novelty item, but I do use mine from time to time. $10-15

I started with cheap tools.  I bent shafts, learned about uneven stamps, poor impressions and was generally unsatisfied with the results.  Then one day I happened on Barry King tools and my eyes were opened.  Bevelers that didn't leave chatter marks and could co around corners.  Crisp impressions that aligned with the next one, etc.  No bent tools, better knurling for better control.  Then I took a few lessons from a Lady Named Silva Fox and she recommended a few tools from Bob Beard, and those literally changed my life.  The things those few tools taught me (in addition to wanting more of them) are astounding.  My skills improved at a much faster rate with good tools and I learned there was more than one way to use any given tool.  I am speaking of figure carving tools by Bob, specifically.  Smooth tools that allow me to mold leather how my mind sees it as opposed to how the tools sees it.  With the right 15 to 30 tools, I can carve nearly anything, and I would sell all of my other possessions before I sold those handful of tools.  The benefits to the higher price tag are that these tools cannot be found at any other level or maker.  Its that simple.  

Now, all that being said, there are amazing artists using the most rudimentary tools available or some modified cheapo tools who pull off amazing feats with those tools.  Tony Allen Bernier is one of them.  Britt Nantz is another.   At a certain level of experience, the tools almost don't matter as the artist can find or make tools to do what they want, complex geometric tools aside.  Those are pure wizardry.  However, there are many benefits to tools with expensive price tags.  For example, consistency of impressions.  Some low quality tools leave uneven impressions.  So if you had a BW and you ran half your piece holding the tool one way, the pattern may spread, and if you turn it around, it may now converge on itself.  This is maddening until you recognize it and learn how to deal with it.  Other low quality tools have plating that can chip off, again affecting the impressions.  Easy to fix, if you have to tools and know how.

The single biggest reason to consider pro level tools, even bigger than the quality of the tool and its ease of use, is style.  Pro tool makers focus on one thing.  Making tools.  Therefore, you have a much wider variety of tools available to you.  There is some exclusivity at the higher price point and some tools cannot be found anywhere else.  Developing my own style was important to me as I recognized early on I would not be satisfied by carving only Tandy/Stohlman patterns the rest of my life.  I started leather work in Chicago, and there's literally nobody who wants the same tired floral/acanthus pattern you've seen a bazillion times since the 1960s on any items they purchase.   While there may be a market for that sort of thing, I find it passe, as do my clients.  Using a wide variety of tools that allow you to experiment with other ideas, requires tool shapes that can fit in delicate spaces, make impressions other than the standard beveler or pear shader, and help you develop your style. 

So, find someone who's work you like, and then find out how they do it.  What tools are they using?  How can you emulate it?  Can you make due with what you have or do you need to look past the basics?  The choice is up to you.

[Raksha]

I really do miss a "like" button on this forum. Both for superb question from Railrider and the amount of knowledge and experience in many of the answers! 

 

[MakerUnknown]

Very nice response, immiketoo.

[immiketoo]

1 hour ago, MakerUnknown said:

Very nice response, immiketoo.

Thanks, man.  I have so much more than I ever needed, I just didn't know it at the time.  On the plus side, I can now tool almost anything

[billybopp]

Thanks for that list @immiketoo!  Great info for helping make heads and tails of tool quality and pricing.

One thing I'd suggest for anybody is to avoid the REALLY cheap tools such as you find on eBay for 25 for $20 and such.  Those are the ones that we hear people complain about bending and having lots of issues.

Otherwise,  I'm always a bit of two minds about buying tools.  On the one hand, buy-once cry-once is a good philosophy but in order for that to be a wise decision you need to know what you want.  On the other hand, try cheap then buy better can be a better choice if you don't yet know what your personal style is and don't really know what you need. 

There's also a bit of a middle road too:  Buy pricey tools where they make a big difference, and buy lesser tools where they don't.  Geometric and basketweave tools really need to be "just right", so better tools are a good investment.  I wish I had known that when I started!  "Slightly off" tools in that class are a real pain to use.  Upgrading those was a very good choice for me.

IMHO, the craftool and craftool pro are a good place to start for most tools, especially if you get them used or on sale.  

-Bill

 

 

[Railrider1920]

Thank you all very much. Somethings mentioned I never even thought about, how crisp the stamp is, a plating that comes off, tools bending. At least now I have the names of different tools to look for. 

Such great info offerd. Thanks again

Rob

[immiketoo]

If I had to start over knowing what I know now, I'd buy pre-letter craftool from the 50s and 60s.  They are fine tools with crisp impressions.

[Railrider1920]

19 hours ago, TacticallySharp said:

The last photo shows 3 of my 7 Barry  swivel knives. 

I've added 2 more in the last year...

 

The blades shown in these pictures, they look like they are curved a little. Kind of like a wood carving gouge. Are they curved or is it just my bad eyesight?

[Railrider1920]

17 hours ago, immiketoo said:

Old pre -letter Craftool 

Mike, most of the tools I have been looking at were identified by letter and number like V678. Is that the letter you are talking about?

 

While looking for one of the brands mentioned,  I found a site probably known to veteran leather workers, www.proleathercarvers.com
They carry tools made by the following people / companies :
James Linnel, Craft Japan, Barry King, Hide Crafter, Kyoshin Elle and some "vintage" craftool.  Can anyone suggest other sites that carry tools that you would suggest? Either a single maker or various different makers.

19 hours ago, JLSleather said:

I often recommend these guys. https://www.ebay.com/str/proleathercarvers

These folks seem to have a pretty decent selection too.  

Edit here: I just realized that the eBay Store is proleathercarvers.  Didn't see the connection earlier 

Thanks again.

 

Edited June 24, 2018 by Railrider1920

[immiketoo]

4 hours ago, Railrider1920 said:

The blades shown in these pictures, they look like they are curved a little. Kind of like a wood carving gouge. Are they curved or is it just my bad eyesight?

These are what is known as hollow ground.  There is great debate as to whether or not this is a useful feature.  I don't think it matters too much, but I have some of Barry's blades and they are quite good.

4 hours ago, Railrider1920 said:

Mike, most of the tools I have been looking at were identified by letter and number like V678. Is that the letter you are talking about?

 

While looking for one of the brands mentioned,  I found a site probably known to veteran leather workers, www.proleathercarvers.com
They carry tools made by the following people / companies :
James Linnel, Craft Japan, Barry King, Hide Crafter, Kyoshin Elle and some "vintage" craftool.  Can anyone suggest other sites that carry tools that you would suggest? Either a single maker or various different makers.

These folks seem to have a pretty decent selection too.  

Edit here: I just realized that the eBay Store is proleathercarvers.  Didn't see the connection earlier 

Thanks again.

 

Yes, if they have the letter, they are too new.  Look for tools without it.  So that tool would be just a 678.  Proleathercarvers is a new company that Jim Linnell created after he retired from Tandy last year.  They carry a range of tools from other makers, but frankly you can get them elsewhere for less, and his son makes some tools.  

[Railrider1920]

12 minutes ago, immiketoo said:

but frankly you can get them elsewhere for less, and his son makes some tools.  

Thanks for the heads up Mike. I'll keep looking around.

[immiketoo]

Bruce Johnson usually has a great selection of old tools that are worth looking at.  https://brucejohnsonleather.com