New Thread Company Advice

[Ed in Tx]

Have you considered touching base with a company such as Springfield Leather Company to discuss your idea? They are a standalone company that has a large customer base across the spectrum of leather crafters. Kevin or Rusty would be the ones to talk to.

Personally I only sew by machine now, I started out hand sewing but after hand stitching a couple of belts I made the investment in a Cobra 4 machine.

[chrisash]

Don't forget the existing companies are experts in their own field and have years of experimenting to get where they are today, that's why there is a cost. how are you going to match that yet be cheaper

[Garyspruill]

3 hours ago, Ed in Tx said:

Have you considered touching base with a company such as Springfield Leather Company to discuss your idea? They are a standalone company that has a large customer base across the spectrum of leather crafters. Kevin or Rusty would be the ones to talk to.

Personally I only sew by machine now, I started out hand sewing but after hand stitching a couple of belts I made the investment in a Cobra 4 machine.

Hey Ed in TX,

Another Texan here. Have I touched base with Springfield, District, Buckle Guy, Frog Jelly, Makers, yes.

I am working with some top notch thread engineer's (never knew there was such a thing), and wanted to get this (if) idea off the ground as a stand alone first, then if we choose to offer the product to the wholesale route, can do so at that time. My main concept is going to be: maker to user market. This may change, but for now, this is the path I am on.

Sewing machine thread: this is what the thread guru's keep pushing me to do first?? Same type of thread as mentioned above, yet non-waxed in the size 130's and 90's just for sewing machines. Maybe down the road along with the Linen goods.

Thank you kindly for the input. Something to put on the chalk board.

Gary

[Garyspruill]

My goals are:

1st - Hand sewing thread

2nd - Sewing Machine thread

3rd - Linen Thread

4th - Edge Paint

5th - Motorized parts - burnishers -  sanders

Right now, I am in the first stages, trying to figure out the "if" there is/would be a market for such a thing. If not, move on. If yes, pursue it, test it, see if on the right track to offer.  Still trying to figure out what the Leather worker's want to see in a hand sewing thread. 

Quick story, my youngest son, wanted to learn how to Fence (Sport Fencing for Olympics), we went out to find him a club and he was very successful at it. Me, not setting on the sidelines, now have this to offer to the fencer's: www.swordmasters.com, many of the products we offer, we  design and make ourselves. Its a niche market, yet is very successful. 

 

Gary

Edited August 4, 2018 by Garyspruill

[NVLeatherWorx]

9 hours ago, Garyspruill said:

Hey chrisash,

Market looking at: Middle to High end at consumer level: yet at a cost of about 1/2 of what we are paying for the same here in the US from brothers and sisters Italy and Germany. 

I am very used to marketing, aka: getting the word out and tested. Understood what your saying. Better product at 1/2 the costs is not always going to knock the top dog off the hill. I am thinking of the "user" market, not the big boys. 

My game plan: if I pursue, make the product, test - test and test some more, then; get it in the hands of the user's by sending out free samples to try out. Not 1500 meter cops, but at least a couple of 25 meter spools. Get feedback and make the needed changes. I am going to be relying on folks that "know" a ton more than I do. I live on the marketing basis of: let the market tell you what they want and they drive the market.

Thanks for the input, helpful.

Gary

I have a feeling that you won't be able to get to 1/2 the cost of what I am getting from Germany (Ritza 25 Tiger Thread), I get it for about $.06 per yard and that is INCLUDING the shipping costs being broken out.  Besides, it sounds like you are just trying to provide the same thing that we get from the Tiger Thread which is already a very popular thread among the quality professional craftsmen.  Here is wishing you luck though and hopefully you can pull it off.

[Garyspruill]

2 hours ago, NVLeatherWorx said:

I have a feeling that you won't be able to get to 1/2 the cost of what I am getting from Germany (Ritza 25 Tiger Thread), I get it for about $.06 per yard and that is INCLUDING the shipping costs being broken out.  Besides, it sounds like you are just trying to provide the same thing that we get from the Tiger Thread which is already a very popular thread among the quality professional craftsmen.  Here is wishing you luck though and hopefully you can pull it off.

Thanks NVLeatherworx,

1/2 the costs: you may be right! But I am going to try. Offer a braided thread, to compete with a well respected thread is going to be tough "if" I pursue this adventure. Lots of marketing, lots of showing off the product, getting it in the hands of the end user's, all tough to do. I know, have done it at least a dozen times. (Texan) It ain't easy.

Looking at your numbers you mentioned: 

Base Line: a 500 meter spool = 546.50 yards, with shipping at 0.06 per yard, that runs right up to: $32.79 for a 500 meter roll at your door. I am going to guess you are getting Tiger Thread at 0.80 thickness or 1.00 correct?  That's a really good deal. Now for the normal user, looked across the website and the normal retail price point for the same thread runs right at: $36.99 for a 500 meter roll. That comes to: $0.067 for a 546.50 yard roll before shipping. Math: 500 meters = 546.50 yards. divided by $36.99 retail =  $0.067 per roll by the yard.

What I am asking is: on the money end of it, and again the "if" I pursue this, and (not set in stone) found my mfg's to make a equal to or (trying to) make a better liked product at a price point of around $0.046, math: 546.50 yards (x) $0.046 costs per yard= $25.14 for 546.50 yards, aka: 500 meters, would that interest anyone? Trying to keep it apples to apples. Also, on that note, distribution would be in the US. Shipped from the US. I may have to go overseas to have it made. to keep the costs in line.

I am still hoping to get some feedback on "what" the end user's want to see in a hand stitching leather thread?

Here is what I will do to try and get some feedback.

Tell me what your favorite hand stitching thread is, tell me what you like about it. Tell me the "why" you use it! Best end result is about it. Let me soak it all in to see if there is a market for what I am trying to do. Now: for those that share this, here is what I will do for you. If I jump on this project, which I am trying to do, for all those that give me feedback that I can use with my guru thread engineers (laughing because never knew this folks were out there) I will send you product to test for me. Not some piece of cardboard with some thread wrapped around it, more like 50 to 75 meters of thread on spools to play around with. Not going to get into colors yet, but something to run  down some lines with, or just use on something you are working on. Try it out. 

Good?

NVLeatherworx, again, thank you for your input. Helps me see all sides of the project.

 

Gary

 

Edited August 5, 2018 by Garyspruill

[chrisash]

But that brings you down to the Chinese prices for basically the same thing

Ritz is a byword of quality accepted by most professionals, the Far East produces a similar item at a far lower price it may well be as long living and basically the same quality as Ritz, but questions will always remain regardless of how many examples of stitches are shown comparing the two or maybe more samples

That area is not the middle you originally stated but the bottom end which is a free for all who can get to the bottom first

99% of people on this forum will probably state that John James are the best needles its taken years of marketing to get that result, there may be better needles around but the fact is most people don't want to try them as they know John James needles do what they want

I do really wish you luck, but just don't think there is much mileage in what your planning,

[NVLeatherWorx]

9 hours ago, Garyspruill said:

Thanks NVLeatherworx,

1/2 the costs: you may be right! But I am going to try. Offer a braided thread, to compete with a well respected thread is going to be tough "if" I pursue this adventure. Lots of marketing, lots of showing off the product, getting it in the hands of the end user's, all tough to do. I know, have done it at least a dozen times. (Texan) It ain't easy.

Looking at your numbers you mentioned: 

Base Line: a 500 meter spool = 546.50 yards, with shipping at 0.06 per yard, that runs right up to: $32.79 for a 500 meter roll at your door. I am going to guess you are getting Tiger Thread at 0.80 thickness or 1.00 correct?  That's a really good deal. Now for the normal user, looked across the website and the normal retail price point for the same thread runs right at: $36.99 for a 500 meter roll. That comes to: $0.067 for a 546.50 yard roll before shipping. Math: 500 meters = 546.50 yards. divided by $36.99 retail =  $0.067 per roll by the yard.

What I am asking is: on the money end of it, and again the "if" I pursue this, and (not set in stone) found my mfg's to make a equal to or (trying to) make a better liked product at a price point of around $0.046, math: 546.50 yards (x) $0.046 costs per yard= $25.14 for 546.50 yards, aka: 500 meters, would that interest anyone? Trying to keep it apples to apples. Also, on that note, distribution would be in the US. Shipped from the US. I may have to go overseas to have it made. to keep the costs in line.

I am still hoping to get some feedback on "what" the end user's want to see in a hand stitching leather thread?

Here is what I will do to try and get some feedback.

Tell me what your favorite hand stitching thread is, tell me what you like about it. Tell me the "why" you use it! Best end result is about it. Let me soak it all in to see if there is a market for what I am trying to do. Now: for those that share this, here is what I will do for you. If I jump on this project, which I am trying to do, for all those that give me feedback that I can use with my guru thread engineers (laughing because never knew this folks were out there) I will send you product to test for me. Not some piece of cardboard with some thread wrapped around it, more like 50 to 75 meters of thread on spools to play around with. Not going to get into colors yet, but something to run  down some lines with, or just use on something you are working on. Try it out. 

Good?

NVLeatherworx, again, thank you for your input. Helps me see all sides of the project.

 

Gary

 

If you were to pursue this I feel that you would have tough slog of it, especially trying to get your product into the hands of the Makers like myself.  We have spent many years working with the various products that are out there once we find that one that is like our "Golden Ring" we stick with it; we rely on the quality, consistency, and customer service that we have received from our suppliers and unless they lose their mind and flip the company upside down we are committed to them as much as they are us.  Regarding your numbers that though you were pretty close to what I am getting it for; I actually pay about $34.95 for the spool and the shipping is not that much more, the $.06 per yard is actually rounded up to the whole penny though.  I use the 0.80 and 1.0 as you stated.  I have tried a couple of other very good products from right here in the U.S. and they are pretty good but still can't deliver the results that I am accustomed to providing my clients and that is why I stick with the Ritza line.  The other products I have tested are available to me for the same cost per yard as what I get Tiger Thread for but in much smaller spool availability.  I carry 6 Tiger Thread colors at all times as my core threads and will make a special color purchase every once in awhile.  The cost isn't the primary concern for us businessmen, it is the quality and consistency of the product for the cost that makes the difference so the biggest hurdle that exists is the quality and consistency first; I don't mind paying a bit more for a product if it is superior to what I am using now and that is where you will find your direction to try and win over the discerning leather worker.

I wish you luck in your research and information gathering and keep us posted as to where it goes.

[Garyspruill]

3 hours ago, NVLeatherWorx said:

If you were to pursue this I feel that you would have tough slog of it, especially trying to get your product into the hands of the Makers like myself.  We have spent many years working with the various products that are out there once we find that one that is like our "Golden Ring" we stick with it; we rely on the quality, consistency, and customer service that we have received from our suppliers and unless they lose their mind and flip the company upside down we are committed to them as much as they are us.  Regarding your numbers that though you were pretty close to what I am getting it for; I actually pay about $34.95 for the spool and the shipping is not that much more, the $.06 per yard is actually rounded up to the whole penny though.  I use the 0.80 and 1.0 as you stated.  I have tried a couple of other very good products from right here in the U.S. and they are pretty good but still can't deliver the results that I am accustomed to providing my clients and that is why I stick with the Ritza line.  The other products I have tested are available to me for the same cost per yard as what I get Tiger Thread for but in much smaller spool availability.  I carry 6 Tiger Thread colors at all times as my core threads and will make a special color purchase every once in awhile.  The cost isn't the primary concern for us businessmen, it is the quality and consistency of the product for the cost that makes the difference so the biggest hurdle that exists is the quality and consistency first; I don't mind paying a bit more for a product if it is superior to what I am using now and that is where you will find your direction to try and win over the discerning leather worker.

I wish you luck in your research and information gathering and keep us posted as to where it goes.

Thanks NVLeatherworx,

Consistency : I agree with you. 

I have already been approached by the Asian mfgs. That solution is not even in my wheelhouse in anyway! I already do business in Asia with another company and know first hand the acceptable tolerance levels they accept. Not happening.  

I currently have (3) mfgs I am working with. (2) of them are mfgs in Europe and (1) here in the States. The youngest of the (3) companies is 70 years in business. The tolerances we are speaking about between us is less than a 1% variance which is too high for me at this time.

I am very aware of the Golden Ring rule. That is the "why" I keep saying: Trying to make it better, not the same, but better. The word "better" has many meanings, to one, it means pricing, or consistency, or color selection, and the really hard one is: working with it. This is the reason I am asking the questions: what is better to you and why is it better to you?

You sound like a businessman same as me. If I came to your shop and you and I sat down and had a cup of coffee and in the conversation the topic of thread came up, and I asked you: what is it you like about your favorite thread, bullet point it for me, you would say?  I am handing you a John James 002, a yard of Tiger thread 0.80, know that I respect your opinion, tell me what you like about it? Time and true is hard to put a pen to.

Please note: I am just a educated red-neck businessman from Texas trying to figure out if there is a market for what I am doing. If not, I can move on. Done it before. If there is a market for it, I want to pursue it.

Here is a thought: In about (3) weeks from now, I will have samples, you want to get some a test drive?  See if I am on the right track or not? Reminder: my perception of "better" may be different than yours. I don't need my perception, I need the public's perception.

Gary

[Garyspruill]

7 hours ago, chrisash said:

But that brings you down to the Chinese prices for basically the same thing

Ritz is a byword of quality accepted by most professionals, the Far East produces a similar item at a far lower price it may well be as long living and basically the same quality as Ritz, but questions will always remain regardless of how many examples of stitches are shown comparing the two or maybe more samples

That area is not the middle you originally stated but the bottom end which is a free for all who can get to the bottom first

99% of people on this forum will probably state that John James are the best needles its taken years of marketing to get that result, there may be better needles around but the fact is most people don't want to try them as they know John James needles do what they want

I do really wish you luck, but just don't think there is much mileage in what your planning,

Hey chrisash,

I understand Tiger Thread is a branded name of quality, I am the same as you. This is what I personally buy-use myself for the very same reason. I also know I would be a no-name company going up against a company like Nike. It's tough - coupled with small margins.

Far East production: would never even think of this. I am working with companies here in the US and in Europe to get the tolerances and quality that would match what we all currently use and like or "better".  The base line from me to these companies is pretty high, and most of the companies are fighting me. I have set some pretty high levels to them. It's very close to a darn boxing match with some of these companies. Gary, you just can't do this, OH yes you can. 

If I do this project, I can only hope to some day sway you to change your mind or at least give us a fair shake. That is all one can ask for.

Thanks again chrisash

Edited August 5, 2018 by Garyspruill