145w304 What have I gotten myself into? Singer 145W304 and 144W304

[Londonfog]

I came across what might be a great deal on these two long arm Singers; the 145W304 is a double needle machine and the 144W304 is a single needle.  After speaking to the current owner he used them to sew pool covers and other stuff.  

He said the single needle needs to be oiled , and cleaned up, the double needle needs to be timed and oiled up as well.  He used to sew pool safety covers with them, found it was easier just to send them out so he hasn't used them in a couple of years.  

According to him the single needle is a tank and works fine, but the double needle doesn't have a clutch and would jump timing when you'd hit something hard like the plastic on pool covers.

Here are photos that I have:  https://imgur.com/a/dIQlFXF

 

On to my side of the issue:

I recently picked this Singer 111W113 for the same price I will be getting both of the above together, and it seems to run just fine, even though I haven't had a chance to put it through any projects at all yet:

http://leatherworker.net/forum/topic/82079-loking-at-a-111w113/

 

Assuming all these machines work well and are complete, would there be any reason to keep the 111W113?  My main reason for picking these up to begin with was to learn to do leather upholstery, and other leather projects, and I'd think the long arm would be awesome for that considering none of these have reverse.   If the long arm single needle presents no downsides other than size/maneuverability (which in this case we'll assume footprint is not an issue), is there really a reason to keep the smaller machine around?

 

I come at this with no real experience working on or maintaining these machines (although I am handy/dangerous enough to tinker inside with timings) and am wondering what pros and cons are for these machines.  I've read up plenty on the 111W, but only know as much as the manuals say for the 144W and 145W, and what the current owner has had to say about them.

 

Any input on these machines would be greatly appreciated.

[CowboyBob]

The 111w would be a better machine for upholstery,feet selection is much better,the 111w cording  feet will fit the 144 but they won't work properly because of the wider gap between the feet.If your not doing cording then the 144w would work if want to use it.The 111w will run smaller thread like size #69 & #92 that the 144 will have tension problems with since it was designed to use #138 & larger.

[Londonfog]

That's good info to know, do you think the double needle would essentially be a one trick pony? 

[CowboyBob]

Yes,how far apart are the needles?

[Londonfog]

2 hours ago, CowboyBob said:

Yes,how far apart are the needles?

That I don't currently know. I should know tomorrow night. 

How hard do you think a gauge change would be? Part sourcing and cost as well as actually doing the swap. 

 

**UPDATE**

The buyer got back to me and sent a close up of the needle. 

It's stamped with the part number 265276 and says 5/8 on it 

Edited October 8, 2018 by Londonfog

[CowboyBob]

Parts are pretty expensive & changing it requires a good mechanic.The price varies on the width you need.

[Londonfog]

33 minutes ago, CowboyBob said:

Parts are pretty expensive & changing it requires a good mechanic.The price varies on the width you need.

Without a basis for reference, 5/8" sounds pretty reasonable to me then, lol. 

Those pro looking French seams will hopefully still look good at 5/8". Maybe a tad large on jeans/denim. 

[Londonfog]

Wow those were a couple of heavy mammajamas to move, and the tables they were on were no joke either. 

 

Thanks Bob for your help and guidance on these. 

Are there any good resources where people have done an overhaul of cleaning on machines like these? Or maybe like a documented thread where someone cleaned and refinished their old model. 

 

I've seen a couple with some quick Google, but really just wondering if there's one particular instance or set of videos on YouTube that's considered top notch. 

 

I saw that old military manual recommended kerosene as a cleaner, which seems reasonable as I've used it on parts before, but just wondering if some new cleaner is preferable in an old sewing machine. 

 

I'll get some photos posted when I get some time. The double needle is currently in my garage, and the single needle is in my brother's. 

Edited October 12, 2018 by Londonfog

[Scoutmom103]

Congratulations

 

[DonInReno]

Great machine!  It’s on my wish list.  Refinishing advice online ranges from crude yet functional to super detailed show pieces.  It might help to decide where along the continuum you want to aim.  Many projects here in the archives are full of great advice and show a good range of products and techniques.

If you’re interested in a glossy custom paint job some of the best videos are aimed at custom cars and/or musical instruments.  The products used are somewhat different, but the techniques are quite similar.  Essentially the surface is stripped of all questionable finish, the existing surface is sealed with a primer, additional filler and sand able primer applied, color coats, decals and clear coat.  The devil is in the details and starting with the filler coats the entire surface has to be sanded  correctly and thoroughly in between subsequent layers.  The final color coat is sanded even further so all defects are removed and it’s  sanded to 1500 grit or so.  Decals applied then clear coats.  The final finish gets sanded to be perfectly flat up to 2000 grit or so, then a buffing compound removes smaller scratches.  The small automotive sanding blocks and other detail sanding products are perfect for sewing machines. 

[Londonfog]

On 10/16/2018 at 12:18 AM, DonInReno said:

Great machine!  It’s on my wish list.  Refinishing advice online ranges from crude yet functional to super detailed show pieces.  It might help to decide where along the continuum you want to aim.  Many projects here in the archives are full of great advice and show a good range of products and techniques.

If you’re interested in a glossy custom paint job some of the best videos are aimed at custom cars and/or musical instruments.  The products used are somewhat different, but the techniques are quite similar.  Essentially the surface is stripped of all questionable finish, the existing surface is sealed with a primer, additional filler and sand able primer applied, color coats, decals and clear coat.  The devil is in the details and starting with the filler coats the entire surface has to be sanded  correctly and thoroughly in between subsequent layers.  The final color coat is sanded even further so all defects are removed and it’s  sanded to 1500 grit or so.  Decals applied then clear coats.  The final finish gets sanded to be perfectly flat up to 2000 grit or so, then a buffing compound removes smaller scratches.  The small automotive sanding blocks and other detail sanding products are perfect for sewing machines. 

Yeah, my first concern is all the old grease/oil and for one of the machines, rust.  I'd love to put the rustier one into a vat of evaporust, but it's not easy to do that with an almost 200 lb machine that's 4' long, lol.  I'm thinking some mixture of wd-40  to loosen the rust and other degreasers to spray it down with, and then using some paint/rust stripper wheels (Think scotch-brite wheels on a drill and dremel)  to at least strip the bed, which I'll later paint to have a clean working surface.

[DonInReno]

You can always dampen a cloth in the rust remover of your choice and Saran Wrap it to the machine - it won’t work as fast as submersion, but it’s easy to do. The wd40 won’t help the rust remover since it makes it more difficult for the chemical to actually reach the surface under the rust.  Harsh rust removers eat through anything, but one that’s more mild will take a little longer.  

[DonInReno]

Also there are many rust removers in gel form - even evaporust.

Speaking of evaporust, there seems to be a good amount is marketing hype about it - the product literature that claims it attacks rust yet doesn’t dissolve iron is a little hard to swallow since the safety data sheet lists the ph at “2 or 3”  It’s a mild acid and does things to metal about like other mild acids do unless there is a magic acid barrier protecting the metal.  Don’t get me wrong it’s good stuff, but $20/gal for something in the same ph range as white vinegar seems like $15/gal of marketing. :-)