Using life-eye needles with 'roo lace

[Gregory B. Moody]

"It sure does make short work of it. "

I used to be able to lace a billfold in 30 minutes , including the one splice half way around to keep the lace from getting fuzzy on the backside, WHiLE WATCHING TV.... you only have to glance down at the point where the needle has to choose a hole or cross... so it does not take away from TV watching AT ALL.... LOL

Greg

[braider]

I cannot understand how anybody can suggest or defend using those archaic hook and eye needles. In my opinion, the threaded needles are better in every way. They are faster, more secure, easier to work with, and last longer. I file them to a point of my chosing and subsequently have no need for a fid. ...Dave

[Gregory B. Moody]

UH.... Did you see the first post in this thread ?

My father was a Tandy manager for 5 years... once we taught people to simple push down on the prong instead of beating it into submission everyone loved the hook and eye needles...

Sometimes if something has survived long enough to be considered ' archaic ' it was because it worked for a long time... Greg

I cannot understand how anybody can suggest or defend using those archaic hook and eye needles. In my opinion, the threaded needles are better in every way. They are faster, more secure, easier to work with, and last longer. I file them to a point of my chosing and subsequently have no need for a fid. ...Dave

[Johanna]

I'm with Dave on this one. A sharpened LifeEye needle means you don't need a fid. (A fid is like a dull awl, if anyone doesn't know. It's used for opening or lining up the stitching holes.) I was a Tandy manager for five years, and I can't remember anyone we ever showed how to use a LifeEye needle going back to using kit needles again. When you are teaching a new student, and they twist the lace, it is easy to unscrew the lace, pull out the stitches, and screw the lace back in.

For what it's worth- If a piece of lace ever should break off inside a LifeEye needle, hold it with a pair of pliers and burn the leather out. The needle will get very hot, but it doesn't hurt anything, and your needle can be saved.

The reason Roo lace wants to slip out is because it's an RCH thinner and a little smoother than goat, and won't expose its fibers when cut like calf. I think kangaroo has the most stretch of all, but I like the way it looks and feels over calf, and is probably worth paying a little more for than calf.

Hey, Shawn, why don't you start a thread about making your own lace instead of buying it on a spool? I know it would be more cost effective, but I can never get my lace to look right. In 1996 I went to Fort Worth for "orientation", which included a three day tour of the Tandy factories on Eversman Parkway. Tandy lace was still being manufactured in-house and I was mesmerized watching the women work. They were efficient and friendly, and had big callouses. I wonder how many miles of lace they made?

Johanna

[Gregory B. Moody]

I received a complaint about my answers in this thread so I am going to be more complete in my composing...

I was asked what my father being a Tandy manager when I was a teenager had to do with anything... I worked most saturdays at the store because both my parents worked there... We got things like rivets and snaps by gross packages and I am the one that counted them out into dozens and stapled the glassine bags together.. I also spent most of the summer with my father when he went around to Texas Hill Country summer camps doing demonstrations on carving and any other leatherworking questions that were asked...

So those the first two posts at the beginning of this thread are only the latest of many years of hearing complaints about thread dependant lacing needles...

People have problems with those needles because screw threads were designed for keeping harder materials together... metal to metal, metal to wood, wood to wood... and the size of the area available for making the threads can aggravate the situation even more... people are going to have problems with anything which requires expertise in judging exactly what taper to cut the spongy lace .....

As compared to the obvious friction created by the change of direction the lace is required to go through with the hook and eye needle... this is the same principal which keeps knots tied... a combination of change of direction creating enough friction to keep the cord in place.

"I do not like hook & eye needles because they tear up my hands, especially when lacing anything more complicated than a checkbook. They bend and break, and cannot stand the force (or the pliers) when buckstitching or going through several layers of leather. They are dull, and don't sharpen well, so they have to be aimed at the holes dead-on. "---Johanna

I assumed by saying that the holes were not properly made that the connection with tearing up your hands would be made by readers... but it was not... so I will rephrase ... A lacing needle is not made to be used like a sewing needle.. the idea that it would ever be bent , broken, or need to be sharpened means that the hole was not properly opened up...

" I was a Tandy manager for five years, and I can't remember anyone we ever showed how to use a LifeEye needle going back to using kit needles again. When you are teaching a new student, and they twist the lace, it is easy to unscrew the lace, pull out the stitches, and screw the lace back in. "--Johanna

I do not know what needles they put into the kits you are referring to... if they did not put the hook and eye then they were shooting themselves in the foot....

When you were teaching those students you did not show them how to avoid twisting the thread by the method which I have described... so that ability to unscrew the lace was only necessary because they did not know how to avoid twisting in the first place... which of course is the time and frustration saving method out of the two...

A fid is a dull Flat awl... you can not expect all the holes you punch in a soft spongy material like mulitiple layers of leather to still be as open as when you punched them.... As soon as you think you need something like pliers to pull on a lacing needle it means the hole is not open enough.. Sore fingers , broken needles , bent needles..... all a thing of the past when care is exercised in making sure the holes are correct at the time you get to them...

I am not sure any needle will work well on what I usually think of buckstitching... but a hole opened up with a fid will allow a sharpened end to go far enough to be pulled on through without a needle attached...

[Johanna]

This is the inside of my purse. It was done with a Life Eye and a pair of pliers, and I didn't have enough strength to do it, and it wasn't because of the holes. My husband had to do it for me. That's not exactly a buckstitch. but it goes through 8/9 oz leather, a soft goatskin liner and the heavy upholstery grade leather bottom. This is a modified pattern from the old jean bag kit Tandy used to sell, for anyone interested. I love this purse because the braided strap never snags my hair, even when it's down, and it's long enough to wear on the opposite shoulder, like when I am on the back on a bike. It's also deep enough to pack a book and a lunch. LOL

Johanna

[whinewine]

I don't like the life-eye needles for standard, flat lacing, simply because the needles are much bigger than lacing slits. I prefer the flat needles, and yes, they are a PITA. However, for me, the flat needles go in much easier. (I have my own system of not letting go of the lace- I put the needle between my teeth while I pull the lacing taut.)

I use only the larger life-eyes (or Perma-loks, as they are now known) for the latigo- type laces; however, the smaller ones I do use for the round 2mm lacing.

Something that works for me is to dip the cut tip of the lace into fly head cement & let dry before screwing it on to the lace. It stiffens the tip which helps it to screw onto the life-eye & seems to help prevent the lace from pulling out of the life-eye as easily & also helps to prevent the lace from breaking off at the needle.