Strongest Rivet Type - Finished Look

[bigdogpaw]

First post here on the forum. New member and looking forward to learning more about this craft.  Apologizes if I am posting in wrong section, I was unsure where to post this question.

I am looking to find out what the best type of rivet is to use. They have to be both strong and look nice. They will be being used on dog leashes and harnesses, so need to not fail with pulling force.  Originally I was going to go with a double cap rivet, but did some reading and learned they are not that strong(if I understood correctly).I dont have much knowledge as far as rivets go when it comes to their strength.

Can anyone suggest a rivet type that would suit my needs? I attached a photo of what I am after. I was hoping to get this on both sides, but the back side can appear different providing it has a clean look.

 

Thanks in advance for any help and or suggestions.

 

[NVLeatherWorx]

9 minutes ago, bigdogpaw said:

First post here on the forum. New member and looking forward to learning more about this craft.  Apologizes if I am posting in wrong section, I was unsure where to post this question.

I am looking to find out what the best type of rivet is to use. They have to be both strong and look nice. They will be being used on dog leashes and harnesses, so need to not fail with pulling force.  Originally I was going to go with a double cap rivet, but did some reading and learned they are not that strong(if I understood correctly).I dont have much knowledge as far as rivets go when it comes to their strength.

Can anyone suggest a rivet type that would suit my needs? I attached a photo of what I am after. I was hoping to get this on both sides, but the back side can appear different providing it has a clean look.

 

Thanks in advance for any help and or suggestions.

 

First of all welcome to the show.

I have been using double cap rivets on the collars and leashes that I make for many, many years now (since they first came out in fact) and have had no issues with them at all.  I use a steel double cap version (Tandy sells them and there are other sources for them as well).  Typically when you read about the misadventures of someone with rivets, snaps, etc. it is because they were not properly used or set in the first place and this is totally in the users hands.  The best rule of thumb to go by is to size your rivet (works with snaps and the like as well) to the overall thickness of what you are securing.  For example, if you are making a collar using 8 to 9 oz. leather which is approximately 1/8" thick then you will be securing approximately 1/4" thickness when you have it folded over which suggests that you select a rivet that will extend through both layers (or how ever many you have it folded if more) plus approximately another 1/8" maximum through the other side for the cap.  In the case of 1/4" the best rivet would probably be between a Medium (5/16" post) and a Large (1/2" post).  The Buckle Guy sells rivets that have post lengths that are easier to get to match your needs but they are all manufactured from solid brass.  However, I use rivets from them on many other things that require strength and durability and have yet to have an issue or a failure of the product.  As long as the right materials are used and properly set using the correct tools and techniques you should never have an issue with anything.

[Dwight]

You will be hard pressed to beat a copper rivet, . . . properly cut and peened.

But it is also a bit of work to use them.

My dog collars and leashes I make have no rivets at all, . . . they are sewn.  Have never had a complaint. 

Fact is, . . . one customer had two little pug bulls that figured out how to get each other's collar off by biting and pulling, . . . collars had shocking device they didn't want to mess with.  They have yet to get my collar off each other.  Yeah, . . . customer was some kind of happy.  Those dogs still don't like me.

May God bless,

Dwight

[ScoobyNewbie]

One of my friends puts a drop of superglue in the cap of the double cap rivet before she sets. Couldn’t hurt.

[NVLeatherWorx]

3 hours ago, Dwight said:

You will be hard pressed to beat a copper rivet, . . . properly cut and peened.

But it is also a bit of work to use them.

My dog collars and leashes I make have no rivets at all, . . . they are sewn.  Have never had a complaint. 

Fact is, . . . one customer had two little pug bulls that figured out how to get each other's collar off by biting and pulling, . . . collars had shocking device they didn't want to mess with.  They have yet to get my collar off each other.  Yeah, . . . customer was some kind of happy.  Those dogs still don't like me.

May God bless,

Dwight

Nice!  Way to go Dwight.  I have also used Chicago screws on some models and put a dab of Loctite in their to "seal" the deal.

[bigdogpaw]

Thanks everyone for the suggestions and help. There's a lot of great tips here. Unfortunately, sewing is not an option for me at this time.

One thing I didnt mention, besides having a clean look, is that I need them to be black in color. I did look at some of the chicago screws as mentioned. I like the look of the, but this may as never using them, do they loosen up ever? I will look more into those and also some of the double cap rivets.

 

Thanks for all the help so far.

You all enjoy your holiday.

 

 

[plinkercases]

Black Chicago screw sound like a plan and as to loosening as Richard mentioned you can put a drop of locktite (red forever - blue if you ever think you will need to open it again)

[bigdogpaw]

I am thinking of going the chicago screw way. I see folks saying the color(black coating) easily comes off of the rivets. Maybe it was just the ones I was looking at, but if thats the case I will skip those for now I think and use on a different product color.

As far as size goes, does the following seem like the correct size?

Material thickness: .095-.105. It will be Doubled over, so total thickness is: .19-.21

Chicago screws I found are: 1/4" (1/4 male, 1/4 female) and barrel diameter of 3/16.

Rivet if I go that way, Double cap rivet length, 9mm(.35") post 3mm(.12").

I may get both and see how each goes for the learning aspect anyways. Thanks tons for the help.

[NVLeatherWorx]

22 hours ago, bigdogpaw said:

I am thinking of going the chicago screw way. I see folks saying the color(black coating) easily comes off of the rivets. Maybe it was just the ones I was looking at, but if thats the case I will skip those for now I think and use on a different product color.

As far as size goes, does the following seem like the correct size?

Material thickness: .095-.105. It will be Doubled over, so total thickness is: .19-.21

Chicago screws I found are: 1/4" (1/4 male, 1/4 female) and barrel diameter of 3/16.

Rivet if I go that way, Double cap rivet length, 9mm(.35") post 3mm(.12").

I may get both and see how each goes for the learning aspect anyways. Thanks tons for the help.

Make it easy on yourself and quit using metric measurements and decimal points, take your basic leather thickness (i.e. 8 to 9 oz. = 1/8" thick), and then multiply it by 2 if you double it over without any skiving.  If you skive then measure how thick one layer is and multiply by 2.  I would use nothing longer than 1/4" on the screw and I would recommend that you look at the open back models which are available in both 1/8" and 1/4".

[bigdogpaw]

1 hour ago, NVLeatherWorx said:

Make it easy on yourself and quit using metric measurements and decimal points, take your basic leather thickness (i.e. 8 to 9 oz. = 1/8" thick), and then multiply it by 2 if you double it over without any skiving.  If you skive then measure how thick one layer is and multiply by 2.  I would use nothing longer than 1/4" on the screw and I would recommend that you look at the open back models which are available in both 1/8" and 1/4".

Thank you for the info.Very helpful. Is there any advantage to using the open back ones? 

[Rockoboy]

6 minutes ago, bigdogpaw said:

Is there any advantage to using the open back ones? 

I don't know about advantage of using them, but the disadvantage is if the back is seen and it needs to be equal to the front.

Where possible, I use double cap rivets, but I have no idea of the comparative strengths or weaknesses.

[NVLeatherWorx]

10 hours ago, bigdogpaw said:

Thank you for the info.Very helpful. Is there any advantage to using the open back ones? 

I have been able to use the 1/8" open backs very successfully on belt/strap ends where I have folded it over for the buckle.  I typically skive the end (as is recommended) which allows me to easily tighten the screws down so that they hold.  The advantage of using the open backs is that you can get them tighter than a traditional Chicago screw because you don't have a limited depth on the cap end.  That is where knowing how thick your overall depth that is to be secured is so that you can best choose the proper material to secure it.  The measurement of a screw post, all types, is identifying the distance between the inside of both caps when installed to its full depth, they can be used to secure thicker measurements.  

[johnv474]

Chicago screws are available in black coating.  It will not last forever but a clear enamel or nail polish can extend that for a long time.  Since neither brass nor stainless are black, the color, in practical terms, has to be a coating (unless you want to be paying far more than 25 cents apiece).  You will have to decide whether you want the strongest or the strongest black.

The strongest would be something like stainless with a really wide cap or a washer beneath it on both sides.  It would be a lot stronger to have a few rows of stitching from end to end, but that greatly increases the labor.

A brass Chicago screw has a 3/16" thick stem that is effectively solid brass once set.  Most copper rivets are 1/8" stem or thinner, and copper is a softer metal than brass.  A copper rivet in leather is considered a permanent type of attachment, so a brass thread-locked Chicago screw should be even more so... plus, they are simple to set.

[LatigoAmigo]

Any problem I've ever had with setting rivets was the result of setting it by hand, and not being able to align the rivet/leather correctly, or applying too little or too much pressure, resulting in poorly set rivets (and snaps) and a lot of frustration.

You might consider getting a bench mounted press like the one available here: http://www.campbell-randall.com/product/italian-twist-press-no-2. This machine has allowed me to set rivets perfectly, and at a very reasonable price. It can also be used to set snaps and grommets. Dies are sold separately and can be purchased from other suppliers (like Ohio Travel Bag).

Edited January 11, 2019 by LatigoAmigo

[wlg1908]

On 12/23/2018 at 5:36 PM, NVLeatherWorx said:

Nice!  Way to go Dwight.  I have also used Chicago screws on some models and put a dab of Loctite in their to "seal" the deal.

Go to you local auto parts store an get blue thread lock. Chicago screws won't come out then