Triple (Compound) Feed vs. Standard Walking foot?

[Smartee]

Good afternoon!

As in the title - what is the difference between a Triple (Compound) Feed machine and a Standard Walking foot machine?  In looking for a machine I see some noted as "just" walking foot and some as compound/triple feed walking foot.

Thanks!

[thunter9]

compound the foot walks , the dogs move on the plate. and the needle moves forward with the feet

 

[Smartee]

Thanks thunder9 - so, on a standard walking foot the feet are all that does the "walking"?

[Wizcrafts]

8 minutes ago, Smartee said:

Thanks thunder9 - so, on a standard walking foot the feet are all that does the "walking"?

The mechanism you are calling standard is dual, top and bottom feed, where only the feed dog and outer foot move together while the inside foot and needle remain static. This is not what leather sewers call standard. It is useful for sewing webbing, vinyl, cloth and upholstery leather. The earliest dual feed machines were made by Simanco from the 1920s, onward. I own a 1923 Singer 42-5 that has a spring loaded outside foot that moves back with the big feed dog on the bottom, then lifts and springs forward. Most of the modern era dual feed walking foot machines have teeth on the feet and a crank driven outside foot. The teeth on top can chew up and mark top grain veg-tan leather.

If you intend to sew veg-tan or bridle leather, do not get a dual feed walking foot machine. Get a triple/compound feed walking foot machine with smooth bottom feet. If you need a harness stitcher, get one that has a smooth feed dog, like the big Cowboy, Cobra and Techsew 441 clones. This feeder won't leave tooth marks on the bottom layer.

[Smartee]

Thank you Wizcrafts! That explains it and helps narrow the choices down a bit!

[Tejas]

11 hours ago, Wizcrafts said:

The mechanism you are calling standard is dual, top and bottom feed, where only the feed dog and outer foot move together while the inside foot and needle remain static.

Here is Wiz's video of a compound walking-foot machine that shows the movement of the "inside foot and needle."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-QjJgJKKVM

[Smartee]

Thank you Tejas - and Wizcrafts!

[Ghdnz]

On 1/3/2019 at 3:14 PM, Wizcrafts said:

The mechanism you are calling standard is dual, top and bottom feed, where only the feed dog and outer foot move together while the inside foot and needle remain static. This is not what leather sewers call standard. It is useful for sewing webbing, vinyl, cloth and upholstery leather. The earliest dual feed machines were made by Simanco from the 1920s, onward. I own a 1923 Singer 42-5 that has a spring loaded outside foot that moves back with the big feed dog on the bottom, then lifts and springs forward. Most of the modern era dual feed walking foot machines have teeth on the feet and a crank driven outside foot. The teeth on top can chew up and mark top grain veg-tan leather.

If you intend to sew veg-tan or bridle leather, do not get a dual feed walking foot machine. Get a triple/compound feed walking foot machine with smooth bottom feet. If you need a harness stitcher, get one that has a smooth feed dog, like the big Cowboy, Cobra and Techsew 441 clones. This feeder won't leave tooth marks on the bottom layer.

Hello! This is an old thread but wondering if you could answer what you think is best for what I make - I make slippers and end up sewing through quite a few layers: 2 of leather and then 2 of wool jersey and then a lining. It can be nearly 1cm thick by the time all the layers are together to join the sole. Can you advise whether it is best to get a true walking foot or if a top and bottom feed would be sufficient? I don’t use super hard leather, more like upholstery leather. Thank you. 

[Wizcrafts]

5 hours ago, Ghdnz said:

Hello! This is an old thread but wondering if you could answer what you think is best for what I make - I make slippers and end up sewing through quite a few layers: 2 of leather and then 2 of wool jersey and then a lining. It can be nearly 1cm thick by the time all the layers are together to join the sole. Can you advise whether it is best to get a true walking foot or if a top and bottom feed would be sufficient? I don’t use super hard leather, more like upholstery leather. Thank you. 

To sew 1cm you will need a different kind of sewing machine than a standard upholstery class walking foot. It will have to sew thicker than those machines are built to sew. Most upholstery class machines max out at 3/8 inch, with is 10mm

There are a few options you have to sew this thickness. But, first you have to decide on the geometry of the arm. How will you be sewing the parts together: from the outside edge or inside the slipper? It would really help if you post some photos of the slippers or shoes you want to make. Otherwise, we are just going to guess wildly about the type of machine you will need.

[MtlBiker]

34 minutes ago, Wizcrafts said:

To sew 1cm you will need a different kind of sewing machine than a standard upholstery class walking foot. It will have to sew thicker than those machines are built to sew. Most upholstery class machines max out at 3/8 inch, with is 10mm

There are a few options you have to sew this thickness. But, first you have to decide on the geometry of the arm. How will you be sewing the parts together: from the outside edge or inside the slipper? It would really help if you post some photos of the slippers or shoes you want to make. Otherwise, we are just going to guess wildly about the type of machine you will need.

Wizcrafts... I'm confused about your reply.  1cm IS 10cm.  Are you saying that most upholstery class machines, maxing out at 10mm would not be able to sew 1cm?

 

Edited July 3, 2021 by MtlBiker

[Wizcrafts]

3 hours ago, MtlBiker said:

Wizcrafts... I'm confused about your reply.  1cm IS 10cm.  Are you saying that most upholstery class machines, maxing out at 10mm would not be able to sew 1cm?

 

No. I am saying that 3/8 inch is the maximum thickness they can sew. That is not supposed to be the constant thickness, just the occasional seam. If a project is 3/8 inch solid, it needs a different machine that can handle thick thread and has longer needles and stronger tension disks and a beefier take-up lever. It requires either a sole stitcher or a harness stitcher.

[Wizcrafts]

11 minutes ago, Wizcrafts said:

1cm IS 10cm

Oh???

[MtlBiker]

2 hours ago, Wizcrafts said:

Oh???

Duh…. Typo… 1cm is 10mm.  

[MtlBiker]

3 hours ago, Wizcrafts said:

No. I am saying that 3/8 inch is the maximum thickness they can sew. That is not supposed to be the constant thickness, just the occasional seam. If a project is 3/8 inch solid, it needs a different machine that can handle thick thread and has longer needles and stronger tension disks and a beefier take-up lever. It requires either a sole stitcher or a harness stitcher.

Thanks for clarifying what you meant.  I really didn’t understand when you said a machine capable of sewing 10mm wouldn’t be a good choice for sewing 1cm. 

[Wizcrafts]

1 hour ago, MtlBiker said:

Duh…. Typo… 1cm is 10mm.  

LOL (I know that). Sorry, I couldn't resist!

[Ghdnz]

13 hours ago, Wizcrafts said:

To sew 1cm you will need a different kind of sewing machine than a standard upholstery class walking foot. It will have to sew thicker than those machines are built to sew. Most upholstery class machines max out at 3/8 inch, with is 10mm

There are a few options you have to sew this thickness. But, first you have to decide on the geometry of the arm. How will you be sewing the parts together: from the outside edge or inside the slipper? It would really help if you post some photos of the slippers or shoes you want to make. Otherwise, we are just going to guess wildly about the type of machine you will need.

 
not sure if my last photo came through. This is what I sew through to attach the top to the sole. They aren’t hard soles, more of a soft upholstery leather but end up being a few layers. 
thanks!

[Wizcrafts]

I can't tell how it needs to be sewn from the photo you posted. Can you please post another view of the shoe showing where the sewing has to be performed? Shoot at the lowest "resolution" and use a photo editor to reduce the file size if necessary.

If you have a wide enough lip around the bottom of the shoe it can be edge stitched then trimmed. The width of that lip and its thickness will help with the machine choices.

[Ghdnz]

3 hours ago, Wizcrafts said:

I can't tell how it needs to be sewn from the photo you posted. Can you please post another view of the shoe showing where the sewing has to be performed? Shoot at the lowest "resolution" and use a photo editor to reduce the file size if necessary.

If you have a wide enough lip around the bottom of the shoe it can be edge stitched then trimmed. The width of that lip and its thickness will help with the machine choices.

Here is a photo from the top view of the shoe inside where I sew around to attach it to the sole. I usually sew it with a 3/8” seam allowance and trim off the excess so the seam inside is not too much. I would love to be able to do them so no seam is felt on the inside but if I cut them down any more the fabric will possible come apart at the seam. 
hope these help hit let me know if any more info is needed. I really appreciate your help. Thanks.