Awl Sticks from glue in welt

[MrLentz]

Hi,

I am making a knife sheath that is causing me some trouble and am wondering if anyone has a solution. I have the welt glued in with  reina aquilim 315 which is a water based contact cement. It works great and I do follow the directions about applying to both sides, waiting until clear (around 30 min), then pushing pieces together and hammering. Then I waited at least 24 hours before using my awl and it seems as though the glue gets stuck to it creating little boogers. It makes it hell trying to punch the holes as well as slightly dangerous and prone to error when trying to hit the groove on the back side.

I have been gluing the entire piece, so my next thought is I should try gluing everything except the area close to the approximate location of the stitch line. I think that would help, but on a welt - there really isn't much space there. I really don't want to resort to using Barges or the other hardcore cements, anyone else have this issue and have a solution for it?

Thanks!

[VYO]

When I use Renia 315 I use a glue spreader to apply the glue by dropping a line of glue by just touching the end of the paddle to the material I'm gluing leaving a thin line (maybe 1/16th to 1/8th inch) of glue. I stay away from edges and stitch lines. I've not done a welt before so I'm not sure how hard that would be. 

Glue spreader - https://www.rmleathersupply.com/collections/dyes-stains-finishes/products/glue-spreaders?variant=4319359683

[YinTx]

Same issue for me.  The longer I let the glue cure (as in, DAYS), the less of a problem I have.  Still, when I am stitching, the needles grab glue, the thread grabs glue, it's a mess.  Have to put it on pretty thin.  Hitting it with a heat gun before putting the pieces together helps... some.

YinTx

[dikman]

Would sticking the awl into beeswax first help? It does with non-glued parts.

[Matt S]

I find that Renia 315 is much easier to sew if I only apply a very very thin layer. Diluting just a tad with water helps this.

I also usually speed drying with a heat gun, which might reduce stickiness I dunno, I'm just in a hurry.

19 minutes ago, dikman said:

Would sticking the awl into beeswax first help? It does with non-glued parts.

All the beeswax I've bought has been sticky rather than slippery. Never quite understood the idea that it's a good lube for anything other than drawer runners etc. where it fills in pores in the wood. I stab into a block of glycerine soap if my awl starts to get gummy.

[YinTx]

4 hours ago, Matt S said:

All the beeswax I've bought has been sticky rather than slippery. Never quite understood the idea that it's a good lube for anything other than drawer runners etc. where it fills in pores in the wood. I stab into a block of glycerine soap if my awl starts to get gummy.

This!  Always kinda baffled me, only figured if the tool was so rough that the beeswax filled in the rough... might help.  Or maybe glue and wax don't get along so well.. I could see that helping.   Hadn't thought of the glycerine idea... might try it sometime.

YinTx

Edited February 11, 2019 by YinTx

[dikman]

Maybe we get a better quality beeswax down-under? Mine is all hard (bought from a beekeeper I know) and only gets slightly sticky when it softens under heat.

[Matt S]

5 hours ago, dikman said:

Maybe we get a better quality beeswax down-under? Mine is all hard (bought from a beekeeper I know) and only gets slightly sticky when it softens under heat.

Could be. I've noticed differences in beeswax off one beekeeper or another, or from a hardware store. I suppose it depends what the bees were eating (heather honey anyone?) and how it's processed. The hardest stuff I've had was 10+ years old, out of a big pile of tools that belonged to a saddler. I bet most of the volatiles had evaporated off.

9 hours ago, YinTx said:

Or maybe glue and wax don't get along so well.

This could be it, it's difficult for glue to stick to anything waxy. (Just see the Novichok  toluene based glue I use on waxed leather!) I still find a 50p bar of glycerine soap from the grocery store works better, and lasts about forever.

[SilverForgeStudio]

Strop or hone your Awl a bit as well- the cleaner the surface/edges the less glue you pick up. In another life I did some rope and cord work where the core fibers were rubberized- a smooth needle/awl would not stick or "gum up" as bad. We knew we needed to hone/strop when it became "Sticky"

Just a thought

[YinTx]

@MrLentz, have you tried any of these things?  Any of them working for you?

YinTx

[MrLentz]

I tried a few ideas yesterday and here's how it went:

- I have been using a bar of 50% bees and 50% candle wax - I don't notice the difference as far as ease of pushing the awl blade through. The awl blade is brand new from Barry King and extremely well polished. I also stropped it a little just to be sure.

- Tested a thin layer of Aquilim 315 all the way to the edge:  still gums up the awl  (however I just noticed the note to try watering it down, I will test that out and try again)

-Tried thin layer of aquilim on either side of the stitch line but not on it: this of course worked well but can be hard to put it down in the right spot. This could be a solution if it is just put on the inside of a stitch line - it may hold up enough to do stitchwork and be out of the way.

- Tested out Fiebling's Leathercraft cement all the way to the edge: this is very viscous so you have to be very careful applying, once fully dry - the awl blade passes easily through it with no problem. Seems to dry harder than Aquilim, but still stay flexible. Also seems fairly strong if you let it fully cure - though slightly less grip than Aquilim. One tip I used is to apply to both sides being glued, then use a heat gun to get it to a gummy stage, then press together and clamp. The reason being is it will prevent the glue from running out of the edge.

 

I will be trying out the glycerine soap - maybe saddle soap? Also thinning the Aquilim 315 with some water to make it much thinner.

Thanks!

 

Edited February 11, 2019 by MrLentz

[YinTx]

Thanks for the reply.  Since I've had the issue as well, I look forward to hearing what you use as a final solution.

YinTx

[MrLentz]

Well after trying the watered down Aquilim 315, it is still very difficult to get the awl through.

I also tried a very thin layer of Fiebings Leathercraft cement and heat gun dried it to a tacky state, then pressed together. That does not seem to be a problem for the awl at all. I would say the bond is about 1/2 as strong, but it should work for most projects. The Aquilim 315 is probably best used if you are easily able to avoid both the stitch line and the edge. The edge seems to create the goobers while trying to burnish etc..

[DV8DUG]

Try using a non-water based cement.

[Rockoboy]

7 hours ago, MrLentz said:

The edge seems to create the goobers while trying to burnish etc..

Have you tried burnishing the edge with dry canvas to get rid of the dried contact adhesive? I find it grabs the smallest speck from between the layers.

[MrLentz]

8 hours ago, Rockoboy said:

Have you tried burnishing the edge with dry canvas to get rid of the dried contact adhesive? I find it grabs the smallest speck from between the layers.

I Haven't tried the dry canvas on it. Though while I did manage to scrape off all the goobers...I noticed that a few days later it had been pushing even more out. It is strange because I did properly dry everything. It's as if it is leaking goobers over time.

[Rockoboy]

10 hours ago, MrLentz said:

It's as if it is leaking goobers over time.

Maybe its a very slow leak caused by the compression of the glue between the layers. Something I have never seen.

For future reference, maybe apply the glue 1/8 - 1/4 inch away from the edge to allow for sanding and or glue leakage.