Landis #3 New to me!

[DavidMillsSaddlery]

I like it! 

 

[Wizcrafts]

That's awesome. Congratulations! The needle and awl machines produce some of the best stitches that can be made.

[DavidMillsSaddlery]

8 hours ago, Wizcrafts said:

That's awesome. Congratulations! The needle and awl machines produce some of the best stitches that can be made.

I haven’t quite got the Union Lockstitch figured out yet... biggest problem is when ending the stitch, is getting the thread to come out... it’s always half way around the cycle...

[Wizcrafts]

3 hours ago, turbotexas said:

I haven’t quite got the Union Lockstitch figured out yet... biggest problem is when ending the stitch, is getting the thread to come out... it’s always half way around the cycle...

I had a trick I learned to finish sewing in the last hole. I'll try to remember it and get back to you. It's been 8 years since I sold my second ULS.

[Wizcrafts]

Okay, I remember how I finished sewing with no extra holes. When edge stitching I would turn the belt, strap, whatever, sideways so that the awl came down outside the leather as the take-up mechanism peaked at the top, locking in the last stitch inside the last hole.

[Big Sioux Saddlery]

Mechanical marvels, these wonderful old machines.  Looks like she runs pretty smooth, original treadle stand, NICE!!  But for the love of God, put your arch cover on!  

[DavidMillsSaddlery]

1 hour ago, Big Sioux Saddlery said:

Mechanical marvels, these wonderful old machines.  Looks like she runs pretty smooth, original treadle stand, NICE!!  But for the love of God, put your arch cover on!  

Yes it’s back on! I was watching to learn.... the mechanics of it! 

 

3 hours ago, Wizcrafts said:

Okay, I remember how I finished sewing with no extra holes. When edge stitching I would turn the belt, strap, whatever, sideways so that the awl came down outside the leather as the take-up mechanism peaked at the top, locking in the last stitch inside the last hole.

I’ll try that today! Thank you! 

[Big Sioux Saddlery]

1 hour ago, turbotexas said:

Yes it’s back on! I was watching to learn.... the mechanics of it!

Fascinating, isn't it?!  I could walk by a room full of brand new heavy sewing machines, without taking a second look.  But these vintage machines were truly designed to stitch heavy leather, beautifully, and my heart beats a little faster when I see one.

[dikman]

I'll bet you like watching old stationary/steam engines too.

I'd say you've done well getting a wee beastie like that, tt.

[DavidMillsSaddlery]

2 hours ago, dikman said:

I'll bet you like watching old stationary/steam engines too.

I'd say you've done well getting a wee beastie like that, tt.

This is the second beastie I’ve recently acquired... I’ve also got a Union Lockstitch I’m learning to use! I just thought my singers laid a pretty stitch! Well they do, but not as pretty as these! 

3 hours ago, Big Sioux Saddlery said:

Fascinating, isn't it?!  I could walk by a room full of brand new heavy sewing machines, without taking a second look.  But these vintage machines were truly designed to stitch heavy leather, beautifully, and my heart beats a little faster when I see one.

I always wanted one years ago when I had a retail saddle shop... 

[Goldshot Ron]

OK Sioux, I have a request....would you post photos of how you thread the bobbin?  I purchased a 3 several years ago because I thought I needed one.  Anyway, I was never sure if the bobbin was threated correctly.  Lately, I have been having trouble on the bobbin side of the stitch.  Also, where can you buy extra bobbins?  I only have one. 

My machine"s story is that it came from King Saddlery through Sheridan Leather, via a gentleman from Northern New Mexico.  Cool to have tools with such history.

Thanks, Ron

[ensitmike]

Is there a video somewhere that explains how this works?

[DavidMillsSaddlery]

4 hours ago, Goldshot Ron said:

OK Sioux, I have a request....would you post photos of how you thread the bobbin?  I purchased a 3 several years ago because I thought I needed one.  Anyway, I was never sure if the bobbin was threated correctly.  Lately, I have been having trouble on the bobbin side of the stitch.  Also, where can you buy extra bobbins?  I only have one. 

My machine"s story is that it came from King Saddlery through Sheridan Leather, via a gentleman from Northern New Mexico.  Cool to have tools with such history.

Thanks, Ron

I’ve got one that supposedly was rebuilt by King, and I found paperwork (receipts from Cuba NM) which is between Albuquerque and Farmington!  

[DavidMillsSaddlery]

As far as threading the bobbin, it needs to lay so that the thread come from the bottom, then out the small slot! Now roll the shuttle assembly over, and insert thread into the small hole, then UNDER the outer spring, but OVER the black spring, back into the shuttle...

[Big Sioux Saddlery]

10 hours ago, Goldshot Ron said:

OK Sioux, I have a request....would you post photos of how you thread the bobbin?  I purchased a 3 several years ago because I thought I needed one.  Anyway, I was never sure if the bobbin was threated correctly.  Lately, I have been having trouble on the bobbin side of the stitch.  Also, where can you buy extra bobbins?  I only have one. 

My machine"s story is that it came from King Saddlery through Sheridan Leather, via a gentleman from Northern New Mexico.  Cool to have tools with such history.

Thanks, Ron

Looks like Turbo answered your question better than I could have.  

Bobbins and parts are going to be difficult to source.  I'd try Campbell/Randall . . . I know they quit buying and rebuilding the 3's, but they supposedly have a few parts left.  Eli Schlabaugh in Illinois may have some also.  He is Amish, so no web presence, but you should be able to find his phone number by googling either his name or Landis Sales and Service.

Just out of curiosity, what trouble are you having with the bottom side?  Many, if not most of the issues with these machines (if in good operating condition) can be traced directly to thread quality.

[Big Sioux Saddlery]

6 hours ago, turbotexas said:

I’ve got one that supposedly was rebuilt by King, and I found paperwork (receipts from Cuba NM) which is between Albuquerque and Farmington!  

When King's had the auction some years back after Don's passing, there were supposedly quite a few #3's sold.  Unfortunately, I was not able to attend.

[DavidMillsSaddlery]

6 hours ago, Big Sioux Saddlery said:

Looks like Turbo answered your question better than I could have.  

Bobbins and parts are going to be difficult to source.  I'd try Campbell/Randall . . . I know they quit buying and rebuilding the 3's, but they supposedly have a few parts left.  Eli Schlabaugh in Illinois may have some also.  He is Amish, so no web presence, but you should be able to find his phone number by googling either his name or Landis Sales and Service.

Just out of curiosity, what trouble are you having with the bottom side?  Many, if not most of the issues with these machines (if in good operating condition) can be traced directly to thread quality.

What type of thread are you using? Nylon, polyester or the old school stuff? Then what type of wax? I see this nylon thread wearing parts quickly? 

[Goldshot Ron]

I'll go to the shop and try rethreading the shuttle.  Sioux,  the bobbin thread is clumping; like you would see on a poorly sewn backstitch.

I'm using nylon bonded thread with silicon lubricant in the wax pot.  My stitching looks like the "old" fox said: "...some days chicken, some days feathers".  Now that you mentioned Cuba, NM; that's where the fellow lives who I bought the machine from.

I know that these machines were made for linen thread, but I'm unaware of a good source.

Thanks guys for the info.

[Wizcrafts]

1 hour ago, Goldshot Ron said:

I'll go to the shop and try rethreading the shuttle.  Sioux,  the bobbin thread is clumping; like you would see on a poorly sewn backstitch.

I'm using nylon bonded thread with silicon lubricant in the wax pot.  My stitching looks like the "old" fox said: "...some days chicken, some days feathers".  Now that you mentioned Cuba, NM; that's where the fellow lives who I bought the machine from.

I know that these machines were made for linen thread, but I'm unaware of a good source.

Thanks guys for the info.

This is a wrong combination. Nylon thread is already lubricated. The tensioners on needle and awl machines need to get a good grip on the thread to pull up the knots. They were designed with linen thread in mind. The silicon makes the thread slippery, which throws off the tensioners' affect. The wax pot is for liquid wax, not silicon. Further, nylon is not recommended as a dry thread in these machines. If you must use bonded thread, use bonded polyester. It is already lubricated.

Believe it or not, you can still buy linen thread for needle and awl machines. It is distributed by Campbell-Randall, in Texas, under two varieties: Hungarian Linen and Barbour's Irish Linen Thread. I strongly recommend Barbour's because it is cleaner. The Hungarian thread had all manner of loose fragments protruding from the twisted thread. While liquid beeswax would smooth them down, Campbell's Lax Wax did not. Barbour's Irish linen is the best I have ever used, albeit you will need to back way off on the tensions.

[DavidMillsSaddlery]

1 hour ago, Goldshot Ron said:

I'll go to the shop and try rethreading the shuttle.  Sioux,  the bobbin thread is clumping; like you would see on a poorly sewn backstitch.

I'm using nylon bonded thread with silicon lubricant in the wax pot.  My stitching looks like the "old" fox said: "...some days chicken, some days feathers".  Now that you mentioned Cuba, NM; that's where the fellow lives who I bought the machine from.

I know that these machines were made for linen thread, but I'm unaware of a good source.

Thanks guys for the info.

I talked to Eli today at Landis, and he suggested using the polyester thread! He said the nylon kinks too easily! That may be what you’re getting in your stitch? 

 

[DavidMillsSaddlery]

Are you using matching numbered needles and awls? The Union LS I have has a different numbering system, And they instruct you to use the needle size one smaller then the ball size!

 The old manual I have for the Landis number three suggest using the same numbered all and needle, and using one size smaller thread in the Bobbin...

Eli suggested going one needle size smaller than the awl as well

[Big Sioux Saddlery]

8 hours ago, turbotexas said:

What type of thread are you using? Nylon, polyester or the old school stuff? Then what type of wax? I see this nylon thread wearing parts quickly? 

In all honesty i have not used my #3 enough to say one it sews with one thread better than another.  I did get some poly for it; it was expensive, loosely twisted, and i wasn't overly impressed.  I've heard so many negative things about the linen that is available to us today, that i am reluctant to drop the cash to buy a couple new spools to try it.  I have a couple older spools that I used with my Randall machine however, and it was wonderful stuff.  I believe I used either Frankel's stitching wax or Sellari's (sp?) with it.  I have some of each.  I ran plenty of nylon thread through my first Randall, and the only problem I had with it is the same trouble it gives on most other machines.  After winding off the spool for a long enough time, it developed kinks between the thread brakes or at other points along the thread path, and that will always give trouble. 

 

2 hours ago, turbotexas said:

Are you using matching numbered needles and awls? The Union LS I have has a different numbering system, And they instruct you to use the needle size one smaller then the ball size!

 The old manual I have for the Landis number three suggest using the same numbered all and needle, and using one size smaller thread in the Bobbin...

Eli suggested going one needle size smaller than the awl as well

The reason Eli may be suggesting a size bigger awl than needle, is as these machines wear, if you get a little play in the needle bar, you can have trouble with the needle not wanting to follow the awl up through the work, especially on heavier work.  If you use a size bigger awl, it gives a bigger hole for the needle to follow.  Very few of these vintage stitchers are as tight as they were when they were new.  If you are doing fine, light work, the sizes recommended in the manual may work great, plus look better also.

[Wizcrafts]

42 minutes ago, Big Sioux Saddlery said:

SNIP

The reason Eli may be suggesting a size bigger awl than needle, is as these machines wear, if you get a little play in the needle bar, you can have trouble with the needle not wanting to follow the awl up through the work, especially on heavier work.  If you use a size bigger awl, it gives a bigger hole for the needle to follow.  Very few of these vintage stitchers are as tight as they were when they were new.  If you are doing fine, light work, the sizes recommended in the manual may work great, plus look better also.

I found this to be true on both of my Union Lockstitch machines. I adjusted the needle feed block as tight as possible without binding, in two axis. Even with this tight needle positioning, there were times and circumstances when the needle missed the hole and started pushing the leather up. Also, some leather and non-leather tends to close up on the bottom as the awl withdraws, making it harder for the needle to penetrate the hole. So, a full size larger awl helps the needle do its thing with difficult leather, or Biothane.

[Big Sioux Saddlery]

On 5/6/2019 at 6:35 PM, Goldshot Ron said:

,  the bobbin thread is clumping; like you would see on a poorly sewn backstitch

I would try changing the take-up to raise the lock.  If you changed ANYTHING, type/density of leather, thickness of leather, etc, it can have an effect.  Nylon, since it does tend to stretch more than the other materials, will be more cause that lock to stay on the bottom.  While some people may think having to change the take-up on these old machines is crude and a pain in the butt, the ability to do that, along with the thread brake system is what makes these machines so we'll suited for sewing heavy leather.  Speaking of thread brakes, you might want to check those also.  If you get a groove worn in them, they will let the shuttle steal thread.

[DavidMillsSaddlery]

I found a second Landis 3 to add to my collection! It was a head only, so I put a servo motor and speed reducer under the table! 

give a like and a follow!

davidmillssaddlery.com