Any way to pull dye OUT of leather?

[Toddo]

18 hours ago, TargetRockLeather said:

I think the darker color has more to do with the texture of the leather than the shade/color of it before you dye it. The more porous the leather, the more dye it will absorb. The texture and smoothness/porosity will vary from one piece of leather to the next. It's not something you can control. That's why you should try to cut all of the pieces from the same piece of leather. I don't think dying the back made the front darker unless you completely saturated the back.

You mentioned applying antique. I'm not sure what you were trying to accomplish or how it turned out. If the project came out too dark then perhaps you could have applied a "resist" layer before the antiquing step. The resist will allow the antiquing to darken some of the details (tooling cuts, stamping etc) without darkening the overall project.

Yeah the darkness probably has more to do with the saturation of the leather.

As far as the antiquing, basically I was just mimicking the Weaver Leathercraft guy at this YouTube video: However, I do realize he has tooling in his piece that he wanted to highlight. I gotta say though I thought the antiquing on my bag side panels made it look better even though there was no tooling.

 

This is my newly molded sheath front-piece that has not been antiqued on top of the bag side panel.  This new piece was sponge wiped. It is also the replacement piece I got off Ebay that was very white looking before I dyed it. Without the antique on it, the color is really not that far off from the side panel color. It's totally acceptable:

 

Here's the sheath back-piece along side the front piece. The back piece was sponge wiped and has been antiqued. It is darker than the front-piece. I have enough left from the Ebay piece to make one more back-piece so what I'm gonna do is, make a new back piece,  sponge wipe it, and not antique it so it matches the front-piece and I think that will be fine:

 

Thanks for the tip on the resist. I will be tooling a huge design on the front panel of the bag. I planned on dyeing over top of the tooling then antiquing over top of that with no resist like the Weaver guy in the YouTube video. I think I will use resist on my next bag. What resist do you suggest that doesn't streak or do anything weird?

 

[TargetRockLeather]

First thing I would do is TRY it on a few pieces of scrap first. Don't make your first attempt on something you care about. Do some quick tooling on a scrap and try it with and without resist. In my personal experience, using antique without any resist just makes the whole thing darker without getting decent contrast in the tooled areas. I've seen Chuck's videos too and I know he shows using antique without resist and it seems to work for him. I tried it and wasn't happy with the results. That's why I'm saying to try it first.

I've seen Eco Flo Super Shene recommended and I've tried that. It works "ok". Any top coat type finish that seals the leather will probably work. You just want to be able to wipe off the antique gel or paste without it making the project darker. Where I seem to run into trouble is when I try to apply a top coat AFTER the antiquing. It seems to smear the antiquing even after the paste has dried. Hopefully others will chime in with their recommendations as I still don't have a process I'm totally happy with.

[Bob Blea]

I sometimes antique without using a resist and I completely agree with @TargetRockLeatherabout experimenting first.  It's not easy to get a good even result.  You will want to have some unscented baby wipes (that's really what I use) handy as they are really good at removing unwanted antique and evening out the finish.  Without a resist it is hard to get an even coating (especially on untooled smooth areas) but the baby wipes will remove the excess, even if it has dried quite a bit, and make your surface much more even.

For resists I've never been happy with Super Shene or Satin Shene as resists.  I found I needed to use a lot of coats and still had problems with it not resisting.  I use Wyo Sheen (sold by Barry King) which is a lacquer based resist that is supposed to be the same thing as the old NeatLac was.  It works well but I still need at least two thin coats for a good resist layer.  And again I always have the baby wipes handy to clean up and make things even if there is any streaking.

As for top coats, I don't think there is any top coat that doesn't take some of the antique off when you rub it on.  A lot of people use Tan Kote as a final finish and it does take some of the antique off.  The only solution I've found is to spray a top coat on that I don't rub at all.  I use a spray on acrylic made for spraying over pastel chalk artwork, but some people water down Resolene and spray it on with an airbrush.

[TargetRockLeather]

@Bob Blea Interesting idea to use the baby wipes. I'll have to try that some time. I have tried spray on finish and it does seem to be the best way to avoid streaking/smearing on top of antiquing. I used Saddle Lac and that seems to work well. The thing I don't like about Saddle Lac is that it seals the leather completely which prevents conditioners such as neatsfoot oil from penetrating. I would prefer if years down the line someone will be able to oil the leather. Also it makes the piece look like plastic which isn't desirable in my opinion. I wonder if your approach works better.

[Toddo]

On 6/6/2019 at 12:24 AM, TargetRockLeather said:

First thing I would do is TRY it on a few pieces of scrap first. Don't make your first attempt on something you care about. Do some quick tooling on a scrap and try it with and without resist. In my personal experience, using antique without any resist just makes the whole thing darker without getting decent contrast in the tooled areas. I've seen Chuck's videos too and I know he shows using antique without resist and it seems to work for him. I tried it and wasn't happy with the results. That's why I'm saying to try it first.

I've seen Eco Flo Super Shene recommended and I've tried that. It works "ok". Any top coat type finish that seals the leather will probably work. You just want to be able to wipe off the antique gel or paste without it making the project darker. Where I seem to run into trouble is when I try to apply a top coat AFTER the antiquing. It seems to smear the antiquing even after the paste has dried. Hopefully others will chime in with their recommendations as I still don't have a process I'm totally happy with.

 

On 6/7/2019 at 1:37 PM, Bob Blea said:

I sometimes antique without using a resist and I completely agree with @TargetRockLeatherabout experimenting first.  It's not easy to get a good even result.  You will want to have some unscented baby wipes (that's really what I use) handy as they are really good at removing unwanted antique and evening out the finish.  Without a resist it is hard to get an even coating (especially on untooled smooth areas) but the baby wipes will remove the excess, even if it has dried quite a bit, and make your surface much more even.

For resists I've never been happy with Super Shene or Satin Shene as resists.  I found I needed to use a lot of coats and still had problems with it not resisting.  I use Wyo Sheen (sold by Barry King) which is a lacquer based resist that is supposed to be the same thing as the old NeatLac was.  It works well but I still need at least two thin coats for a good resist layer.  And again I always have the baby wipes handy to clean up and make things even if there is any streaking.

As for top coats, I don't think there is any top coat that doesn't take some of the antique off when you rub it on.  A lot of people use Tan Kote as a final finish and it does take some of the antique off.  The only solution I've found is to spray a top coat on that I don't rub at all.  I use a spray on acrylic made for spraying over pastel chalk artwork, but some people water down Resolene and spray it on with an airbrush.

Lots of good info to think about. Thanks for the input.

[Toddo]

Here's my final sheath sewed onto the outside of the right side panel for the trail bag project. Front and back  of sheath sponge wiped with no antique. And I remember now why I antiqued the side side panels to begin with even though there is no tooling on them. It's because I'll have a tooled design on the front of the bag so the entire front panel will be antiqued and so I had to antique the side panels also so the color would match over the entire bag.

The sheath is just a touch darker. Not bad though.

Here's the right and left side panels together. I got a LOT more to do finish the bag. I hope the dye job on the front panel comes out even. The front panel is huge. It's like 9 inches wide by around 3 feet long. It's gonna wrap around the side panel sewing tabs, come back around the top and hang down more than half way down the front of the bag. I hope the overlapping wipes with the sponge don't show dark sections on the overlaps. The Fiebings pro dye is oil dye so I "shouldn't" have a problem as long as the wipes are even and I don't let dye pool on top anywhere.

[Bob Blea]

On ‎6‎/‎7‎/‎2019 at 8:20 PM, TargetRockLeather said:

@Bob Blea Interesting idea to use the baby wipes. I'll have to try that some time. I have tried spray on finish and it does seem to be the best way to avoid streaking/smearing on top of antiquing. I used Saddle Lac and that seems to work well. The thing I don't like about Saddle Lac is that it seals the leather completely which prevents conditioners such as neatsfoot oil from penetrating. I would prefer if years down the line someone will be able to oil the leather. Also it makes the piece look like plastic which isn't desirable in my opinion. I wonder if your approach works better.

I put the WyoSheen on in very thin coats (usually two) and gives the leather some shine but it doesn't feel like plastic unless I get a lot on it.  It does seal the leather up pretty well.  It leaves it pretty water resistant but I think I've seen times where Neatsfoot oil has gotten through.  I've been told by other leatherworkers they have oiled things after a lot of wear that have been sealed, but I suspect that only worked because the seal had worn off.  I need to test it sometime.

[robs456]

40 minutes ago, Bob Blea said:

Neatsfoot oil has gotten through.  I've been told by other leatherworkers they have oiled things after a lot of wear that have been sealed, but I suspect that only worked because the seal had worn off.  I need to test it sometime.

Neatsfoot oil will go through anything!
Ok, maybe not. But I once managed to get a finished piece (super sheen I think) stained by accident by neatsfoot oil, so another time when after finishing with Angelus finisher (by airbrush) I noticed that the piece was too stiff so I put a thick layer on top of it and had it on overnight. Then in the morning most of it was still there but enough had seeped through to make the piece pliable. Removing the left over neatsfoot oil took a while and a few rags but in the end it worked.
The piece was black, and I didn't notice any dark(er) spots, but I wonder how a lighter piece would look...

If this is all rambling and no sense please excuse me, I'm hopped up on Taurine and vitamin B...AKA energy drinks...dangerous things...