Problem dying Veg- Tan

[dfrensdorff]

Hello all you dye experts.... I’m having trouble when finishing a dyed veg-tan belt, that has no tooling.  I normally dye my basketweave tooled belts (after casing and tooling), and then seal with 50/50 resolene, and never have a problem. With a basic strap of veg tan, after dying and letting dry overnight, in which there is no sign of an uneven, blotch problem, I put on the resolene, and get a few areas, like the resolene couldn’t penetrate.  I’m using Feibings Pro Dark Brown dye. See pics and thank you in advance for any help or suggestions. ..... Don

 

Edited June 30, 2019 by dfrensdorff

[fredk]

Possibly, could be, uneven penetration by the thinned resolene  due to the belt being a bit too dry. I'd try a few more coats of thinned resolene, maybe even thinning it a bit more - just about almost but not quite soaking the leather. Then see how it dries out over several days

[YinTx]

Have you oiled the leather or put any treatment on?

What kind of leather are you using?

YinTx

[dfrensdorff]

2 hours ago, fredk said:

Possibly, could be, uneven penetration by the thinned resolene  due to the belt being a bit too dry. I'd try a few more coats of thinned resolene, maybe even thinning it a bit more - just about almost but not quite soaking the leather. Then see how it dries out over several days

I could give that a try ....

 

[dfrensdorff]

30 minutes ago, YinTx said:

Have you oiled the leather or put any treatment on?

What kind of leather are you using?

YinTx

No oil or any treatment .... clean veg-tan from Sepici Brothers. Here is a pic of a basketweave belt I did with the same leather just two weeks ago .... the only difference I can think of is I mixed some new resolene and water together  ... after it is dyed, it looks very even.

 

 

 

 

[fredk]

Thing is, I reckon, cos I wouldn't, you'd not notice a wee bit of uneveness in the colour as it dried out due to the stamping pattern - which looks very nicely done

[YinTx]

@dfrensdorff, what @fredk says is likely true.  I usually put some oil on my leather after dye, and buff after it has had a few minutes to soak in.  Wait a day, then apply finishes.  If you don't oil, you can end up with cracking later, particularly around buckles and such.  The oil also seems to even out the dye work some.  Try a different brand of leather like Wickett and Craig, or Hermann Oak, and see if you get different results.  Your belts are nicely done, and deserve great leather.

YinTx

[dfrensdorff]

14 minutes ago, YinTx said:

@dfrensdorff, what @fredk says is likely true.  I usually put some oil on my leather after dye, and buff after it has had a few minutes to soak in.  Wait a day, then apply finishes.  If you don't oil, you can end up with cracking later, particularly around buckles and such.  The oil also seems to even out the dye work some.  Try a different brand of leather like Wickett and Craig, or Hermann Oak, and see if you get different results.  Your belts are nicely done, and deserve great leather.

YinTx

Thank you both for the suggestions ... a few questions, as I’ve never oiled after dying, before finish.

* How long after dye do I oil?

* What oil?

* How long do you wait to put on the finish? 

once again, thank you both. 

[fredk]

9 minutes ago, dfrensdorff said:

Thank you both for the suggestions ... a few questions, as I’ve never oiled after dying, before finish.

* How long after dye do I oil?

* What oil?

* How long do you wait to put on the finish? 

once again, thank you both. 

1. as soon as the dye is dried in, or just about dried. As I do my oiling later YinTx might have something else to say on this.

2. Neatsfoot Oil, aka NFO. I use a beeswax and NFO mix which I put on after sealing with resolene or Super Sheene  [ both thinned, 1:1] ~ YinTx puts his oil on before final sealing, we both get results we are happy with. Either way, the NFO really helps. Note: use Pure NFO not NFO Compound

3. as soon as my resolene coat is dry, or sometimes as it is nearly dry I apply the beeswax/nfo

[YinTx]

15 minutes ago, fredk said:

1. as soon as the dye is dried in, or just about dried. As I do my oiling later YinTx might have something else to say on this.

2. Neatsfoot Oil, aka NFO. I use a beeswax and NFO mix which I put on after sealing with resolene or Super Sheene  [ both thinned, 1:1] ~ YinTx puts his oil on before final sealing, we both get results we are happy with. Either way, the NFO really helps. Note: use Pure NFO not NFO Compound

3. as soon as my resolene coat is dry, or sometimes as it is nearly dry I apply the beeswax/nfo

Yes to above. I tried to experiment with both ways, my results are that the resolene does not adhere as well if I have a lot of beeswax nfo mixture applied first, and if I do the resolene first, I can't get much beeswax nfo mixture to soak in.  Resolene will adhere if you only use NFO.  So I have adjusted, and either put the beeswax nfo mixture, or nfo then resolene.  

I have recently tried a new method I am really happy with, and that is mixing the regular Fiebing's dyes (not the Pro dye) with neatsfoot oil per Fiebengs instructions - I think 4% dye to 96% oil - shake well and apply.  Results in very even coverage, and no drying and cracking on your leather.

YinTx

[bikermutt07]

26 minutes ago, YinTx said:

 

I have recently tried a new method I am really happy with, and that is mixing the regular Fiebing's dyes (not the Pro dye) with neatsfoot oil per Fiebengs instructions - I think 4% dye to 96% oil - shake well and apply.  Results in very even coverage, and no drying and cracking on your leather.

YinTx

Haven't heard about this technique?

[YinTx]

Works awesome.  Give it a try sometime.  Fiebengs actually describes it in their tips page on their website.

https://www.fiebing.com/tips/mixing-fiebings-leather-dye-and-prime-neatsfoot-oil-compound/

I don't use the compound, just the nfo. 6% and 94% for the ratios, I am corrected.

This has a little bit of antique on it, but you can still see the even results.

YinTx

[fredk]

4 hours ago, YinTx said:

I have recently tried a new method I am really happy with, and that is mixing the regular Fiebing's dyes (not the Pro dye) with neatsfoot oil per Fiebengs instructions - I think 4% dye to 96% oil - shake well and apply.  Results in very even coverage, and no drying and cracking on your leather.

I've not heard of this either. I too must try it out 

[chrisash]

I am still a learner, but have used NFO on the belt first then after about a hour applied the pro dye and had a good even finish which seems to have good penetration then 50/50 resolene a couple of days later

[fredk]

I thought YinTx had erred in the proportions. It seems to be too much oil to dye, I thought it would be the other way round

4 hours ago, YinTx said:

I have recently tried a new method I am really happy with, and that is mixing the regular Fiebing's dyes (not the Pro dye) with neatsfoot oil per Fiebengs instructions - I think 4% dye to 96% oil - shake well and apply.  Results in very even coverage, and no drying and cracking on your leather.

But Feibings says;

To achieve this highly desired result the trick is to mix 6% of Fiebing’s Leather Dye with 94% Fiebing’s Prime Neatsfoot Oil Compound.  This works especially well with all of the brown tones and the primary colors like green and blue.

As one who is never sure just how much NFO to put on, is it getting into and through the leather? etcetera. I'm going to adapt this idea and add a small proportion of NFO into my thinned dye, thus I'll oil as I dye.

[dfrensdorff]

I’ll give it a try as well ... thank you both!

[YinTx]

7 hours ago, fredk said:

add a small proportion of NFO into my thinned dye, thus I'll oil as I dye.

I had tried in the past to mix oil/dye in 10/90, 25/75, 50/50 and gave up because I didn't like the results.  When I did the 94/6 oil/dye ratio, magic.  Even tried 90/10 and it was not too bad either - just darker.  And for sure you don't need to oil again when you are done!

2 hours ago, dfrensdorff said:

I’ll give it a try as well ... thank you both!

Let us know how it works for you - would like to see how it comes out for others besides me.

YinTx

[YinTx]

On 6/30/2019 at 8:49 PM, dfrensdorff said:

No oil or any treatment .... clean veg-tan from Sepici Brothers. Here is a pic of a basketweave belt I did with the same leather just two weeks ago .... the only difference I can think of is I mixed some new resolene and water together  ... after it is dyed, it looks very even.

 

I hope you get some oil in that thing - it looks great, and the oil/nourishing will help it last a long time.  Try it on a sample piece that you have dyed, tooled, finished just like this one so you can see how it will come out first.

YinTx