Sealing leather

[PappysLeather]

What is best to seal leather after dying it? How do  apply it without taking the dye off? I think I just ruined a project I was working on for a customer when I was sealing it and it started removing a lot of the black dye. I am about to throw in the towel doing leather work if I cannot dye it and the dye stays on when I seal it. I was spraying super sheen but it had a lot of bubbles and I used a sponge to try to spread it out to get rid of the bubbles. Last time I sprayed it left spots where the bubbles were.

[TargetRockLeather]

Two questions:

1) What kind of dye are you using? If you use Fiebings Pro Dye that won't wipe off once it's dry.

2) What are you trying to accomplish by "sealing" it? Again, if using the Pro Dye it's quite durable and shouldn't need to be sealed. Super Sheen, Resolene and other products will somewhat protect the finished piece and shouldn't disturb the dye. If you're trying to protect the piece from harsh weather, there are far better products out there than super sheen.

[JazzBass]

I agree that the Pro dye is far superior to many others...
Another thing to do though, is to brush your piece after drying. Pigment that does not penetrate should be removed before sealing with Resoline, Super Sheen or other waxes/oils, or you can get running or rub off from the unabsorbed pigment.

[PappysLeather]

I used black antique first but wasn't as black as I liked so went over it with usmc black. I buffed it after it was dry with lambs wool.

Edited July 15, 2019 by PappysLeather

[PappysLeather]

Is there something else l can use now to help even it out. It has some dull spots where I tried to get dye on it where it came off

[TargetRockLeather]

From my experience with antiquing finishes, they don't penetrate as dye would. In fact I think it would act as a barrier preventing the dye from penetrating. I'm guessing that's what happened in your example. It looks very blotchy in the picture. Did you use a dauber to apply the dye? if so, perhaps using a piece of lambs wool to apply it would even it out. You might even try dip dying it. It's probably going to be difficult to get it even with the antique finish on it.

[PappysLeather]

Will oil base dye penetrate the super sheen I put on it?

[dougfergy]

Probably not, and if so , not evenly, in my opinion.  I'm going with what was said about the antique being a sort of finish that the dye has a hard time penetrating.  Then you put super sheen (finish) on top of that.  You might be able to scrub off some of the finishes with alcohol or leather cleaner/deglazer from Fiebings, maybe?  Then use pro dye again and see what you end up with.  I've used antique finish as a base coating and it always ends up looking somewhat blotchy and "antique" which I was going for.  For a solid coloring, it's best to use pro dye.  A sponge brush might work for that large a piece.  

[PappysLeather]

Here is a picture of finished project

[wizard of tragacanth]

Nice project. It looks great! So, how did you fix this?

USMC Black gives a very deep black but it leaves a great deal of particulate on top of the leather. It must be buffed off before further treatment and it takes a great deal of work, feeling like it will never end. Fiebing's Pro Oil should also be buffed after applying, but there will be very little rub-off. Also, you may notice that USMC Black and all of the non-oil dyes really tend to dry out your leather and make it very stiff. Sometimes this can be an advantage, as in a holster that needs to maintain it's shape. Still, I cannot put up with the rub-off with those dyes... drives me nuts. 

BTW, the general rule of thumb on applying any kind of liquid top-coat is to go with very thin applications. You can do multiple applications but make sure they are thin, every time. You could use neutral shoe polish and not have to worry about it.

nick 

Edited July 19, 2019 by wizard of tragacanth

[dougfergy]

Yeah, I think that came out great!

[Northmount]

On 7/15/2019 at 1:34 PM, PappysLeather said:

Will oil base dye penetrate the super sheen I put on it?

Pro Oil dye is now called Pro dye.  So called oil dyes are not oil based.  They are solvent based and have some oil added to the concoction.  Solvent based infers use of a solvent like alcohols.  Other option is water based.  The stronger the solvent used in your finish, the more likely to see it lift some of the dye, especially water based dyes. 

USMC black is the worst for lifting and spreading.  Good for fixing the toes on your boots, then applying boot polish (wax) over top. 

Your finished wallet looks very nice.  Keep it away from white shirts.

Solvent based dyes will penetrate most finishes.  It will not be as dark as it would with bare leather.  Could take more coats to arrive at same depth of coverage.

Tom

 

[JazzBass]

On 7/20/2019 at 7:28 AM, Northmount said:

Pro Oil dye is now called Pro dye.  So called oil dyes are not oil based.  They are solvent based and have some oil added to the concoction.

I was under the impression that with what we called "oil dye" had an oil based formula for the pigment itself, and that solvents are used as the carrier. Did I have it wrong?

[paloma]

On 7/13/2019 at 2:38 AM, PappysLeather said:

What is best to seal leather after dying it? How do  apply it without taking the dye off? I think I just ruined a project I was working on for a customer when I was sealing it and it started removing a lot of the black dye. I am about to throw in the towel doing leather work if I cannot dye it and the dye stays on when I seal it. I was spraying super sheen but it had a lot of bubbles and I used a sponge to try to spread it out to get rid of the bubbles. Last time I sprayed it left spots where the bubbles were.

hello,

Well,in my work always a basic sentence:  make it simply, and make it as your fathers in ways that have proven their worth.In your case I would have used  bees-wax.And finish with carnuba wax.

nothing else IN MY OPINION.

People prefer generally use ready made products with a label on the bottle/can, i prefer using basic products what i prepare myself and in this case i know exctly what's in the bottle...but it's not politcly correct to talk like that.

Edited July 23, 2019 by paloma

[Northmount]

10 hours ago, JazzBass said:

I was under the impression that with what we called "oil dye" had an oil based formula for the pigment itself, and that solvents are used as the carrier. Did I have it wrong?

Why would you suppose they dropped "oil" from the name?  You can check out their MSDS information on their website.  You can also check several other discussions here on LW where the topic has been discussed before.

Tom

[JazzBass]

On 7/23/2019 at 5:23 AM, Northmount said:

Why would you suppose they dropped "oil" from the name?  You can check out their MSDS information on their website.  You can also check several other discussions here on LW where the topic has been discussed before.

Tom

Thank you...always learning here!

[PigasusStudio]

On 7/22/2019 at 7:52 PM, JazzBass said:

I was under the impression that with what we called "oil dye" had an oil based formula for the pigment itself, and that solvents are used as the carrier. Did I have it wrong?

Here's what I wrote on a blog post recently (and I'm too lazy to retype so copy-n-paste it is), mind you I'm a rank newbie so take it all with a grain of salt. I was talking about dyeing with alcohol-based dyes and how everyone on YouTube vids I've been watching say don't use them and go with oil dyes .... 

Quote

Interestingly enough, those who spoke most loudly against alcohol-based dyes in general were often demoing with Fiebing’s Leather Dye line then recommending Fiebing’s Pro Dye in its place. Fiebing’s Pro Dye line *IS* alcohol-based as well, as per Fiebing’s own website. “New and improved”, but definitely still an alcohol-based dye. 

That led to some head-scratching until I heard Weaver Leathercraft’s explanation in one of their videos — the Leather Dye line has an alcohol carrier with a powder-based dye stuff, whereas the Pro Dye line has an alcohol carrier with an oil-based dye stuff.

Ah ha! It’s the difference between the dye stuff (stuff?) base — not the carrier base — that makes, all the, well, difference in the four bullet points above.

Others probably mentioned this point as well, I’m sure, it just finally sunk in during this particular video. I wonder, though, why Fiebing’s didn’t explain this better on their own site. 

Though I'm still not 100% convinced. Both, per their MSDS sheets, have oleic acid (oil) in the same weight range (5-10%) though certainly their specific % could differ as much as 5%. 

Leather Dye U.S.M.C Black vs. Pro Dye Black ... the Pro Dye does list more ingredients as solvents. And that's about as far as my chemistry lack-of-knowledge gets me. :0)

Edited July 26, 2019 by PigasusStudio

[wizard of tragacanth]

Fiebing's probably changed the name from Pro Oil Dye to Pro Dye in order to eliminate the general confusion of people thinking that the "Pro Oil Dye" was oil based.

Regardless of the formula and percentages therein, there is a significant difference in performance between the Fiebing's Leather Dye and Fiebing"s Pro Dye.

Most pros and many rank amateurs, like myself, use only the Pro Dye because it is superior.

nick