birch tar [WTS] Birch Tar, Oil, and Pitch

[Otzi]

Started making a bit of tar and pitch for some of my own little projects and love it, also enjoy the making process. It seems simple at first but once you start to learn it there all types of little nuances that affect the finished tar, pretty neat. I have tried a bunch of different leather treatment and waterproofing products over the years, especially as I play and work in the bush.

 

Birch tar for me is one of the top out there, but I am also not a leather expert, just go by how my boots react and perform. I have found that Russia leather was apparently amazing and the big contributing factor to that was Birch tar. It lets the leather breathe yet keeps it waterproof, and the smoky smell it imparts is great. It does darken the leather some though.

I have a good supply and you can purchase at https://otzispouch.ca

If you buy and use it, I will discount your next order if you share your experience with it here on Leatherworker. Any questions just let me know!

[YinTx]

Interesting stuff.  Any samples of using it on leather, and how it should be applied?

YinTx

[Alisdair]

I'd be super interested: I love playing around with different historical finishes...but like YinTx, I'd be interested in  knowing some of your experiences.

[Otzi]

8 hours ago, YinTx said:

Interesting stuff.  Any samples of using it on leather, and how it should be applied?

YinTx

When the Russians were making "Russia Leather" they applied it to the inside of the leather, I have heard also from another old-timer that used it for a long-time that he always put it on the inside of whatever he was treating or waterproofing. In both cases though as far as I know this was so it would not change the appearance or interfere with staining (Russia Leather).

I have had good results simply applying it to the outside as I don't car if it darkens the leather. I warm the tar slightly to bring it into a more liquid state as it is easier to apply and absorbs quicker. I use a small paint brush (thanks kids) so I can really get in the seams. Let it set for 15-20 minutes and wipe of any excess, no need to let dry or cure more than that from what I can see. I am not a leather expert though so sure would love to have some of you here try it out and get your feedback.

 

I have used it more on wood, especially for knife handles and it works exceptionally well with a really nice dark walnut type patina. There is knifemakers from one country that use it alot, they hang the knife upside down in the tar and let it sit for a year or more. Apparently the handles when they come out are extremely tough and durable.

 

Edit: Just found it, the Finnish makers specifically for the Puukko knife handles.

 

3 hours ago, Alisdair said:

I'd be super interested: I love playing around with different historical finishes...but like YinTx, I'd be interested in  knowing some of your experiences.

 

I made a little video as well yesterday where I talk a little about it and give an example of the color change if interested.

 

 

[Otzi]

Text article also now available at: https://otzispouch.ca/leather-waterproofing-with-birch-tar/

[YinTx]

@Otzi, I was mildly interested in trying some out, but can you clarify the price justification?  It seems I can get a 10 oz bottle elsewhere for ~$26, 10 oz from you would be $350.

It would seem if I was making products, this could make them even more expensive than they already are, and thus harder for me to sell.  But is there something that makes one birch oil better than another?  Thanks for the info,

YinTx

[Otzi]

18 hours ago, YinTx said:

@Otzi, I was mildly interested in trying some out, but can you clarify the price justification?  It seems I can get a 10 oz bottle elsewhere for ~$26, 10 oz from you would be $350.

It would seem if I was making products, this could make them even more expensive than they already are, and thus harder for me to sell.  But is there something that makes one birch oil better than another?  Thanks for the info,

YinTx

@YinTx Can you send me a link to where you are seeing this? I have found a lot of essential oil sellers labeling as "Birch tar" which is incorrect, they are not even close to being the same product.

Edited August 21, 2019 by Otzi

[Otzi]

Ahh, ran out of time to edit the post above...

 

I only know of one other seller for birch tar at the moment and he sells mostly on Etsy. It takes a ton of bark to make one ounce by weight, so if you see it at a fraction of the cost of what I sell for then it is probably a different product such as essential oil or some such. For real tar they should be pretty = as long as the guy is not a sheister and tried to thin it out with alcohol or something like that.

There is one exception which is a very rare type of Birch oil which is a reddish brown instead of black, this was what as far as I know the high end Russia leather was curried with. I have never heard of anybody that has it, but I have figured out how to make it which took me weeks of digging. I won't have that until next spring as it can only be made that way in a short period of the spring.

 

Hope that helps! @YinTx

Edited August 21, 2019 by Otzi

[YinTx]

I'll PM you a link.  It's Russian birch tar, so if anyone can read the label and clarify what it is?

YinTx

[mikesc]

Birch Tar Oil..Brand is Farmaks..ships from Russia..available all over the web..especially on Ebay.
$9.90 for 100ml or 3.4 fl oz..also available in 500ml bottles $25.00..or cases..shipping is cheap.
Lots of uses..old remedy..works very well..
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Birch-tar-oil-100-ml-3-4-fl-oz-natural-antiseptic-diseases-Betula-Russia-/142666004310

Full product description In English and Russian is on that Ebay page..it is "the real deal", not an essential oil , ( they are made from steaming / distilling* the leaves and or blossoms / flowers / roots / rhizomes / bark / other parts of plants ).

In the UK and Ireland you used to be able to get ( maybe still can ) a product made from coal tar..from chemist shops and farm supply outlets..to do the same kind of things...There was ( is ? ) a soap that used smaller amounts of the coal tar.."Wright's Coal tar Soap"..antiseptic soap,..for when you were bathing in the tin bath, and for washing hair..

You may even be able to get it ( the coal tar oil or the birch tar oil ) in the USA from old style farm supply businesses..in areas with livestock, probably someone was making it in the USA or Canada under other brand names ..It is as old as the hills..Very little is "new", things just get forgotten by the many..and then they "come around" again..like using baking soda and vinegar for cleaning in the house..

HTH

* that isn't quite how you make "essential oils" but it is a simplified description of how they are made..I have friends here in France who make various types of essential oils.

Edited August 22, 2019 by mikesc

[Otzi]

That is the oil, not tar which usually contains about 20% water and some other impurities that get cooked off when making it into tar. Even then the price is really cheap for 10 oz and I would be very surprised if it was just oil. I am ordering a bottle and will check it out as well as cook it down into tar to see just how much it gives back. Final amount and how it cooks down will tell if it is the real deal, I will video it and let you guys know here once done.

Edit: Ordered, be here between sep 13 and 26.

Edited August 22, 2019 by Otzi

[mikesc]

The only "absolute proof" would  be chromatogram ( chromatography* ) analysis ( or similar ) , of the "sample" compared against a "known reference sample"..Laboratory supply house dealing in Pharmaceutical Grade  would be a "reference sample", some analysis units may even have the reference figure already in their database for comparison.With respect, your product is not a "reference sample" and unless you are an analytical organic chemist, your "conclusions" would be of no more import than those of any one else reading or posting in the thread.

 

You may have recently discovered traditional Russian leather techniques, but many of us ( especially the Russian leather workers who frequent this site, and there are some highly skilled ones ) were already aware of them for very many years previously, including their history, usages, procedures, and the leather and leather treatment products that they made...and still make. They have proven reputations as makers of traditional products for many years and in some cases many generations to preserve..You have just begun.

 

Good luck with your sales..I might suggest that if you want people to be able to assess / review the quality of what you are making, ( and subsequently recommend the product to others ) that you offer some free samples, rather than offer discounts off what are apparently much more expensive products, than what is currently on the market . A seller's recommendation that their product is "high quality", based upon what they have recently learned ( but which very many people were already aware of and have been producing for hundreds of years ) is not really unbiased..

I'm certainly not looking for samples for myself, if I want Birch tar, I can get it already..and even if, as you posit , the Birch tar oil from Russia was 20% oil, reduction of the oil content would still leave a 500ml bottle ( minus 20% oil ) down to 400ml Bottle costing only $25.00 plus shipping ( and a little for the energy required to "slow cook" it in a "bain marie"..As YinTx pointed out further up, 500ml from you, would cost $350.00 .. but you assure us that yours is better, and as JLS would  say, "you have a video"  ..Yours is ( per ml ) around 60% of the retail price of Chanel number 5.. ( Chanel is just over $500.00 for 500ml, at the current exchange rate of USD to Euros ).. Good luck..

Ps..If you are selling this, you may require an MSDS sheet or Similar ( and an analysis by an independent laboratory so as to be able to ship it with the post office or any carriers ), that may vary with your jurisdiction and that of your customers..IIRC Canada and the USA have legislation which might apply..Europe certainly does, and do not forget product and public liability insurance etc..anyone swallows the stuff, sticks it in their eyes, whatever, you do not want to get sued..If you were merely selling someone else's product it is very much less of a risk ( but a risk nevertheless ) when you are manufacturing and selling your own, it can be a regulatory paperwork nightmare, even if nothing goes wrong..

*https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chromatography

Pps..Your per ml price is also a lot more expensive than any of the Whiskey or Whisky that I have here, and I have some very good single malts..One of them even comes with a deed to a sq foot of a Scottish Island ( where the distillery is ) with every bottle. 'Nother 10 years  and I'll own enough sq feet, to build a small cottage on, if they'd give planning permission, and if not ( highly likely, it would ruin the view ) certainly enough to have my own pic-nic spot. :)

Edited August 22, 2019 by mikesc
Correction Chanel#5 is cheaper than I remembered

[Otzi]

I am not looking to do lab results lol. But having a look at it and cooking it down into tar will tell conclusively if it is what it claims to be, so I will see when that time comes.

I did not assure you mine is better, but I have done it enough to have serious doubts as to how that amount could be offered at that price. As an example 3 lbs of birch on average yields 2.5 to 3 ounces on a perfect batch of oil, that oil then cooks down to about 2 ounces of oil. There are many variables that affect the amounts but that is pretty close overall.

Now head out and collect 3 lbs of Birch bark, process, and distill it into oil. I see no reasonable way you can sell that amount of work at that price, even on a large commercial setup.

Comparing Birch tar to whiskey or perfume is apples and oranges.

[chrisash]

If you google russian birch you find 

Russian Birch plywood is uniquely manufactured with multiple ply's of Birch veneer, used uniformly, throughout the panel. Each layer of birch veneer is peeled at 1.3mm or 1.5mm thickness giving the panel a multi-ply edge that is both aesthetically attractive and offers unmatched strength and stability.

So I would expect there are tons of bark cleared off the trees before use and therefore available for mass production

I also believe its the most populated tree in Russia

[mikesc]

Google search for

annual production quantity Russian birch ply

Quote

Jun 26, 2019 · Global birch plywood consumption is expected to grow from the current 4.5 million m³ to nearly 6 million m³ by 2030. Most of this demand is expected to be satisfied by Russian plywood. Russian birch plywood production is concentrated in the European part of Russia in connection to the so called “birch belt”.

I think that the "Russian commercial set up" is more than "large", they can certainly be able to sell what is an incidental waste by product of Birch plywood production very cheaply,..they could give it away if they felt so inclined.

For example..The SVEZA Group's annual production is 102 million m2 (1.3 million m3)....They don't go gathering 3lbs of Birch bark, they go gathering a few thousand tons per time as as side effect of gathering a few hundred thousand tons of Birch trees at a time, multiple times per year..

 

Making Birch Tar, even at artisanal levels in small quantities isn't rocket surgery.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Birch_tar

Edited August 22, 2019 by mikesc

[Otzi]

I agree on a big scale like mentioned they can do it cheaper then a little guy like me, but I don't think they can do it that cheap. I have seen Birch debarked by machine and it removes inner bark as well as outer, the inner is no good to distill so needs to be separated, and depending on time of year inner and outer can be stuck together pretty hard. That is an additional cost over regular debarking, then you have the distill process which would not be cheap, though probably fueled by scrap wood and maybe even that inner bark.

Either way it is interesting and once this bottle shows up I get to either eat my foot and rethink things, or have confirmation of my suspicions, can't wait until it gets here to see.

[mikesc]

You cold always buy it in bulk from Russia and then "reduce" it and sell it on, not as lucrative, but ( depending on how much you pay for shipping from Canada ), could still be a viable business. Just have to pitch it right to the Hipster market "Condition and waterproof your boots the way your Great Grandpa, and his Great Grandpa etc did*" you may even be able to buy it in Canada in 200 litre barrels.

*Yes, I confess , I used to work in the advertising business.

Come to think of it, if the shipping costs to send stuff to customers were not so high in France, ( and small glass bottles or metal containers are not cheap here either even orders of 1000 units or more ) I'd be tempted to add it as a new product line myself, plenty ( far too many in fact, one is too many ) of Hipsters in France**, seems a shame not to be taking more of their foolish Hipster money.

 

** There are at least 20 or so permanent residents,here in this small town ( 3k population when the tourists are here in summer ) ..Paris is "scootering"*** with them.

***verb or possibly adverb ( depends on where you learned your English apparently ) which describes a number of Hipsters in motion or in a group..Noun is a "scooter" of Hipsters..like "flock"

Edited August 22, 2019 by mikesc

[Otzi]

The main reason I started this was to utilize the entire tree rather then just firing it all in the woodstove which I see as a big waste of a resource. Here Birch is the main source of firewood so a lot is cut and a lot is wasted unfortunately. So not really interested in reselling a product from Russia and pitching to hipsters. I would rather at that point focus on the really rare version of the oil that I have yet to see anybody mention much less sell, just talked about in some very old somewhat obscure documents. Also in perfecting it in its harder states as a glue and in traditional and period specific crafting.

Just have to wait and see how this bottle tests out.

[mikesc]

I built my own mass storage heater / fireplace*, have a friend who is a tree surgeon, in exchange for building him a website, ( which I offered to do anyway ) I get all the free wood I want ( as sometimes 6 metre by 1metre logs ) I just have to chainsaw it smaller, split and store it to dry, some is used for sculpture, or lumber, the rest I burn, all of it, leaves are composted..There is no waste .Grew up ( half the time ) on the family small farm in Eire, small farmers don't waste..not even a small piece of string.

 

Here they don't burn Birch ( which is a shame because it burns well, if a bit tarry if you don't get the fire hot enough, and if you can't build a chimney that draws properly ), they only burn Oak, Beech, and Ironwood..the rest ( they think ) "doesn't burn well"..I've given up trying to explain to them how to build mass heaters, and proper chimneys..I just let folks give me the wood that they think doesn't burn well.

 

Are you sure that there is no one in Canada producing large amounts of Birch Tar that you could buy? Making it yourself is very laudable, but despite being simple, it is time consuming on a small scale.

* ( around 85 to 90% efficient, maybe more, certainly better , more efficient than the very expensive ones that I've see  supposed "specialist" fireplace builders here sell for many thousands of Euros, one of my neighbours bought one of them, burns 4 times as much wood as I do, to get the same temp, in the about the same volumetric space..cost him $16.000.oo Euros ! )

Btw..You might be interested in this ( sort of tangential to what you are doing, but dates back to the time when the Russian Court smelled so much of their leather , which was Birch Bark treated ) that a very well known UK business grew out of it..

https://www.imperialleather.co.uk/our-story

The website has that irritating light brown on beige thing going on with the text in places ( some web designers are beyond hope ) ..but it does give you  some more background that you may not have known around your product's history.

Edited August 22, 2019 by mikesc

[Otzi]

Quote

I built my own mass storage heater / fireplace*, have a friend who is a tree surgeon, in exchange for building him a website, ( which I offered to do anyway ) I get all the free wood I want ( as sometimes 6 metre by 1metre logs  ) I just have to chainsaw it smaller, split and store it to dry, some is used for sculpture, or lumber, the rest I burn, all of it, leaves are composted..There is no waste  .Grew up ( half the time ) on the family small farm in Eire, small farmers don't waste..not even a small piece of string.

The way it should be, it's s a shame more people do not make full use as you do. Indeed farmers are not only very hard working but extremely efficient and minimal waste, good stuff. That is some massive lumber, you are very lucky, where I am (Quebec) they cut most of the timber back in the 60s and 70s so we have very little for big trees like that. Cool that you do web design, I actually was in a similar industry for the past 8 years. Started out freelance Linux admin and consulting for hosting companies before finally opening and running my own hosting company for 4 years. I sold that 6 months ago. I am not all that good with web design but if you need a rock solid site with load balancing and automatic failovers I can make that happen

 

12 hours ago, mikesc said:

Here they don't burn Birch ( which is a shame because it burns well, if a bit tarry if you don't get the fire hot enough, and if you can't build a chimney that draws properly ), they only burn Oak, Beech, and Ironwood..the rest ( they think ) "doesn't burn well"..I've given up trying to explain to them how to build mass heaters, and proper chimneys..I just let folks give me the wood that they think doesn't burn well. 

 

Happy to hear somebody else understands how the wood burning process works, I have argued with people previously about Birch and them saying it burns "dirty", very difficult to make them understand! We are too far North here for Maple but I have traded for it a few times and that is really am amazing wood to burn. Burns with very little flame, very clean, long, and extremely hot. Sounds to me like they are spoiled with their Oak, Beech, and Ironwood.. lol.

 

12 hours ago, mikesc said:

Are you sure that there is no one in Canada producing large amounts of Birch Tar that you could buy? Making it yourself is very laudable, but despite being simple, it is time consuming on a small scale.

I have looked pretty extensively for USA and Canada and did not find any. There are a few Canadian companies putting substantial money into extracting from Birch bark and the wood but they are looking to extract past the oil / tar into individual compounds like triterpenes, acids, etc. I have found just 2 people on Etsy and now this Russian company that is selling (Farmacs). Doing some digging they seem to sell a large amount of oil for livestock treatments which is a 10-15% tar mix for treatments of hoofs, skin issues etc. No idea if that is what I bought :D

12 hours ago, mikesc said:

Btw..You might be interested in this ( sort of tangential to what you are doing, but dates back to the time when the Russian Court smelled so much of their leather , which was Birch Bark treated ) that a very well known UK business grew out of it..

https://www.imperialleather.co.uk/our-story

The website has that irritating light brown on beige thing going on with the text in places ( some web designers are beyond hope ) ..but it does give you  some more background that you may not have known around your product's history.

That was an interesting timeline to read, thanks for sharing it

 

Random thing I just found out about Birch tar tonight. This was not through anything I found online, just my own little weird test :D We have a bunch of wild cats that my wife has taken the habit of giving "treats" which I try to lightly discourage. I know Birch tar repels many insects and pests so I got to wondering if it would have any effect for animals. I set one of my freshly treated work boots 4-5 feet away from the cats "treat" dish and watched as cat after cat came, sniffed, walked around in circles and then left without touching the food.

 

Edited August 23, 2019 by Otzi

[Otzi]

@mikesc I finally received my order and I can say 100% without a doubt this is not 100% birch tar oil. Just by smelling it I know something is off. If you spent any time on a farm or ranch and have treated stock for skin or hoof afflictions you would pickup the smell right away.

It definitely has been added to / cut with something. I hope to have time in the next week to refine it and see how much tar it yields, the consistency is a bit off as well. It is past the point of being watery, it is more like a high proof alcohol that is very cold when you pour it.

I contacted this seller when ordering asking specifically it it was pure and they said it was, considering this seller is selling FOR Farmaks which is one of the largest Birch companies in Russia.....

Edited September 29, 2019 by Otzi

[mikesc]

Bear in mind that you are selling Birch Tar ( which is reduced down from Birch Tar Oil ), and they are selling Birch Tar Oil*.
I've never tried reducing Birch Tar Oil down to Birch Tar ( I do know the smell, our family had small farm in Eire, we , and our farming neighbours used it and Coal Tar Oil a great deal ) ..But based on what one could call the "Tar Yield" of many oils ( Yes I know , they vary, but..) I'd be surprised if 100 ccs of Birch Tar Oil reduced down to more than 1cc or Tar..and probably less**..also depends on how you are doing the reducing.

As to what you think they may have "added"..again only someone in possession of a lab analysis of it, is in a position to know if they did, or not..anything else, is speculation.

If Farmaks have dealer in the USA..they will have to have produced an MSDS..IF they have a dealer in Canada..they would have to have produced the equivalent, and likewise if they have a dealer in the EU ..

The customs declaration ( to allow it to be imported into Canada by yourself ) should say what it is.

*In other words, you are selling a "concentrate", they are selling the raw material from which that concentrate is made.

** In order for it to "pour"..It could not be "tar" ( which is a "catch all" word for highly viscous derivatives of various oils ) "solids" in oil..the % of "solid" to oil varies..Viscosity can be measured..What the "solid" consists of can be analysed,as can what the oil consists of..In order to derive oils from organic substances such as Birch Bark, the Birch Bark can either be heated in water, or have steam and sometimes a volatile solvent ( such as alcohol ) passed through a container of chipped and shredded bark ( usually under some pressure ) and the vapours captured and condensed, sometimes the solvent might be recovered for reuse..this would be distillation, in which case there will be some traces of water in the distillate, and some traces of whatever the solvent was...The distillate can be further condensed ( or reduced ) driving off the oil and the traces of water and solvent, to give a "tar"..

Or..

The Birch Bark can be chipped , shredded and crushed and then pressed, this is closer to how cold pressed olive oil is made.But I'd be very surprised ( nay, amazed ) if this method was used as Birch Bark is not known for it's natural oilyness..at least not to the touch..cold pressing would not be very practical, nor would it have developed as an artisanal technique in the past..

Edited September 29, 2019 by mikesc

[YinTx]

24 minutes ago, mikesc said:

100 ccs of Birch Tar Oil reduced down to more than 1cc or Tar

This in itself would seem to result in a significant price difference.  Would we then have to cut the tar to enable application to leather?  Tar might make a bit of a mess of things I suppose...but mixed with alcohol or beeswax or oil might make things interesting... 

Does the manner in which the tar is produced have a significant impact on the quality of the tar as it pertains to leather treatment?  as in distillation process versus cooked over a fire?

YinTx

[mikesc]

Tars are water repellent ( and if you coat the surface of something with tar, you'll make that surface water repellent ) because they are in effect condensed or partially solidified oils, and oil and water do not mix.
To coat a surface with tar, you have to add it mechanically , by rubbing or smearing, or you'd have to reduce it's viscosity by adding something to it, like oil..in which case , why reduce the oil to it's tar in the first place ?..You could mix in beeswax at the time of adding the oil..Adding alcohol would make the tar "thinner", but alcohol is hygroscopic , so you'd be introducing water ( albeit in small quantities over time )..But the, even though oils will not dissolve in water , they have some water in them, and some other volatiles, which are what are driven off when the oils are reduced to their tars..Seems a lot of work to get back to where you began.

Non oil tanned leather used to be waterproofed by painting oil on to it ( sometimes the oil was warmed to make the oil thinner and penetrate the leather fibres better ), or rubbing the oil in to the leather..Eventually over time, the acids in the oil attacks the leather, oiled boots will last many years though..and they will be waterproof, if the oil is reapplied..It has to be ( reasons are many ) partially because oil oxidises, and in doing so is not as water repellent, the change to the oil renders some of them slightly hygroscopic..A lot of the water repellent properties of things is down to their physical surface construction , sometimes on a microscopic level, water has a tendency to "bead" and run off some textures and surfaces more easily than others which the structure of makes water act "wetter" ( flow / penetrate into the surface ) ..Waxing and then heating works better than waxing cold, because the wax flows into the fibres and the "gaps" thus plugging them better..

Water runs off bird's feathers well, due to their structure, ( the structure of all birds feathers is not identical, but is similar ) but water birds oil their feathers regularly.

The various products and mixtures and brand names that people discuss to waterproof their leather ?..just oil it regularly, adding a little alcohol or beeswax won't hurt ( it will "spread" easier and penetrate better if used cold ) but warm oil ( around 45°C ) painted on, or rubbed in works..as will rubbing in warmed tallow or rendered animal fats..redo regularly..

Distilled or over a fire ? ..What does "over a fire" mean..?

Edited September 30, 2019 by mikesc

[YinTx]

3 hours ago, mikesc said:

Distilled or over a fire ? ..What does "over a fire" mean..?

As I was typing it, the terminology evaded me.  Dry distillation.  For birch oil, as I understood it, traditionally done in a container without oxygen, and a fire set under/over/ or around the container of birch bark.  

As opposed to the steam distillation processes you were referring to.

YinTx