MANUAL SEWING MACHINE OPTIONS

[jrprottas]

Looking for feedback about MANUAL sewing machines like the Tippman Boss, the Outlaw and my current favorite choice:  (solely because I would still have the option of adding a motor, table, pedestal stand down the road) the Cowboy 3200 HC portable. 

Apparently, all are capable of 1/2" thickness of vegtan leather and are capable of a corresponding thread weight for this type of sewing. This would be my first machine.

Can folks having experience with these machines offer your input?

Did you buy it new or used? How reliable has it been?

Would you buy it again?

Are there patchers (?) or other machines to consider?

Should I wait until I can buy an electric clone instead?

Thanks in advance for your time and opinions. Jeff

Edited August 18, 2019 by jrprottas

[kgg]

The main question is what do you want to make. Is it going to be mostly wallets, bags or holsters. Then decide what your budget is and from those decisions you can narrow down your machine choices, new /used, brand name / clone, flatbed / cylinder / post / patcher. Remember that no machine can do it all.

kgg

[jrprottas]

10 minutes ago, kgg said:

The main question is what do you want to make. Is it going to be mostly wallets, bags or holsters. Then decide what your budget is and from those decisions you can narrow down your machine choices, new /used, brand name / clone, flatbed / cylinder / post / patcher. Remember that no machine can do it all.

kgg

Mostly backpacks and bags from vegtan. Multiple layers of 6 oz leather. So I have narrowed it down to a cylinder arm, and if new, to one of the clones: cowboy 3200, techsew  2700, cobra-4, Artisan Toro 3200, etc capable of 1/2" to 7/8" thickness.

For reasons of space, noise and cost I'm considering one of these manual machines.  I would prefer spending $1600 for a manual rather than $2350 if a manual can meet my needs

Really asking opinions from users as to how these manuals compare to the electric clone machines. thanks

Edited August 19, 2019 by jrprottas

[chrisash]

That is quite a thickness on a backpack or bag, do you skive the area you want to join together, this could make a more manageable thickness

[Gunnarsson]

15 hours ago, jrprottas said:

For reasons of space, noise and cost I'm considering one of these manual machines.

Do they really make less noise? The Cowboy, sure, but from what I've seen on youtube the Boss/Outlaw seems to make quite a bit of sound when you operate the crank.

[jrprottas]

34 minutes ago, Gunnarsson said:

Do they really make less noise? The Cowboy, sure, but from what I've seen on youtube the Boss/Outlaw seems to make quite a bit of sound when you operate the crank.

That's partly why I'm asking for feedback- unfortunately I havnt seen any of these up close.

[WolfteverGunleather]

I stitched belts, holsters, and a few bags and misc. items on a Tippmann Boss for several years before buying a Cobra 4, and later a Cowboy 3200. The Boss was a very reliable machine with a pretty easy learning curve. Tippmann Industrial provides excellent service and parts when needed, and they are US based. The clackity-clack noise of the machine when you get into a rhythm is definitely not quiet.

I replaced mine for two reasons primarily: (1) Speed. Even though the Boss was much faster than hand-stitching, it's still much slower than a powered machine. If you're stitching something like a long belt, the difference can be significant. (2) Control. When you're using a manual machine, one of your hands is out of service for anything but operating the machine. So on some projects where both hands are needed to keep some critical pieces properly lined up while you're stitching, you're limited to one hand and quality can suffer.

The Boss machines tend to hold their resale value if you maintain them, especially the older models with the cast iron body. I actually sold mine for more than I paid for it, but I lucked into a very good deal when I bought mine. They also take up less space in your shop, which is a factor if you're already cramped.

[Smartee]

I have the Cowboy 3200 - though not the manual version.  It is quiet running and was able to be dialed down to sewing about 1/4" whatever weight that amounts to without any trouble.

[alexitbe]

I like to have my machines on a treadle despite having servo motors... They are so easy to control for the hobbyist and dirt cheap... The patchers can still be bought with a treadle... Since our sewing with leather does not typically involve long runs of fast stitching i believe there is little benefit with a servo motor of a treadle

[jrprottas]

1 hour ago, WolfteverGunleather said:

I stitched belts, holsters, and a few bags and misc. items on a Tippmann Boss for several years before buying a Cobra 4, and later a Cowboy 3200. The Boss was a very reliable machine with a pretty easy learning curve. Tippmann Industrial provides excellent service and parts when needed, and they are US based. The clackity-clack noise of the machine when you get into a rhythm is definitely not quiet.

I replaced mine for two reasons primarily: (1) Speed. Even though the Boss was much faster than hand-stitching, it's still much slower than a powered machine. If you're stitching something like a long belt, the difference can be significant. (2) Control. When you're using a manual machine, one of your hands is out of service for anything but operating the machine. So on some projects where both hands are needed to keep some critical pieces properly lined up while you're stitching, you're limited to one hand and quality can suffer.

The Boss machines tend to hold their resale value if you maintain them, especially the older models with the cast iron body. I actually sold mine for more than I paid for it, but I lucked into a very good deal when I bought mine. They also take up less space in your shop, which is a factor if you're already cramped.

Thanks for your input. How did the cobra 4 compare to the newer cowboy3200?

[Wizcrafts]

2 hours ago, jrprottas said:

How did the cobra 4 compare to the newer cowboy3200?

One sews up to 1/2 inch while the other sews over 3/4 inch. The pressure springs are heavier on the Class 4 and are able to hold down thicker stacks of leather than the 3200. The Class 4 has a 16.5 inch arm compared to the 10.5 inches on the 3200. Finally, the Class 4 and CB4500 are able to actually tension and pull up #415 bonded thread, which the CB3200 may not be able to do without difficulty.

Regarding accessories, if the CB3200 is fitted with a raised (holster/stirrup) throat plate, there may only be 1/8 to 3/16 inch alternating height left for leather to be sewn. That's not much thickness. It is best used on projects that don't need to be raised to clear shapes protruding down close to the left side of the needle.

[jrprottas]

4 hours ago, jrprottas said:

4 hours ago, jrprottas said:

6 hours ago, WolfteverGunleather said:

2) Control. When you're using a manual machine, one of your hands is out of service for anything but operating the machine. So on some projects where both hands are needed to keep some critical pieces properly lined up while you're stitching, you're limited to one hand and quality can suffer.

Great point...that makes alot of sense!  Thank you

 

 

[Sturme]

with the accessories for the tippmann it would be worth looking into. especially for the flatbed attachment. I love mine.

[chrisash]

On the sound issue, you can buy industrial sound deadening vibration absorbing mats that you can place the machine on that may absorb some of  the noise attenuation

[WolfteverGunleather]

On ‎8‎/‎19‎/‎2019 at 5:38 PM, jrprottas said:

Thanks for your input. How did the cobra 4 compare to the newer cowboy3200?

Wiz has already provided an excellent response, and he's right on target (as always!).

I keep my Cobra 4 set up for 277 top thread and use it for holsters, sheaths, and other heavy work. I keep the Cowboy 3200 set up for 138 thread and use it for lighter work, and as Wiz pointed out that's all flat work. That keeps me from losing the time involved in changing needles, readjusting thread tension, etc. on a single machine, and it also uses each machine within the limits and sweet spot they were designed for.