Is this wrinkling normal for a dual layer belt?

[patrick2099]

I bought a belt with a horse hide exterior and bull hide interior layer. The look and feel of the belt is a total work of art, except for the end. The end looks very wrinkled. None of the belts on the website (Beltman Belts) look like this. 

I was hoping to get an expert opinion on whether this was normal, for dual layer belts, or an anomaly. 

 

Thanks for the help. 

[fredk]

That is pretty much normal

A true belt making expert can make a belt in which this hardly happens but those experts are hard to find

PS. I'm assuming that is the inside. If its the outside then, no it shouldn't look like that

Edited August 19, 2019 by fredk

[JLSleather]

You use the word "normal".... which can mean either normal - "common" or normal- "inevitable"

That GRAIN SEPARATION is COMMON, but is not INEVITABLE.  You see it frequently, but it's unacceptable.  That is not compression wrinkling (which you see commonly on the back of poorly done holsters).  That has actually had the grain layer of the leather distorted - the leather lacks density.  For my money, the supplier would get that one BACK. 

 

[patrick2099]

26 minutes ago, fredk said:

That is pretty much normal

A true belt making expert can make a belt in which this hardly happens but those experts are hard to find

PS. I'm assuming that is the inside. If its the outside then, no it shouldn't look like that

That is the outside. If it was the inside, I probably wouldn't care. This belt was close to $130, because it was a large horsehide belt. Thanks for the info. 

[patrick2099]

10 minutes ago, JLSleather said:

You use the word "normal".... which can mean either normal - "common" or normal- "inevitable"

That GRAIN SEPARATION is COMMON, but is not INEVITABLE.  You see it frequently, but it's unacceptable.  That is not compression wrinkling (which you see commonly on the back of poorly done holsters).  That has actually had the grain layer of the leather distorted - the leather lacks density.  For my money, the supplier would get that one BACK. 

 

I meant common, as there were pictures of belts where this wasn't the case. If it is common, I'd probably rather have a refund. If it is inevitable, I'd have to decide whether to stick with a single layer belt, or deal with the wrinkles. I know that nothing handmade will be flawless, but I wasn't expecting this after what I had paid for the belt. Thanks for the help. 

[JLSleather]

Just now, patrick2099 said:

I meant common, as there were pictures of belts where this wasn't the case. If it is common, I'd probably rather have a refund. If it is inevitable, I'd have to decide whether to stick with a single layer belt, or deal with the wrinkles. I know that nothing handmade will be flawless, but I wasn't expecting this after what I had paid for the belt. Thanks for the help. 

It's common because there are SO many out there making things to sell.  NOt all of them know what they are doing, and not all of them assume that YOU will know the difference (buyer beware).  I don't know if that's "normal" for that business or not.

If something is handmade, it should be BETTER than one that isn't.  IF it's not, then WHY pay more?@!  HAND MADE means each should have been individually inspected for quality.  This one clearly was not.

TO be clear, making a belt dual layer does NOT make it wrinkle. Any time you bend something you will have tension on teh outside and compression on the inside.  But that in your picture is a LEATHER QUALITY issue, not a curve issue.

 

[fredk]

 wot he says, JLS knows what he's talking about here

Send it back

[patrick2099]

Thanks everyone. I sent pictures to the manufacturer, and they are going to replace the belt. I didn't want to request that if it was normal. The owner was very responsive, and didn't give me hassle, but it would be nice if this would have been inspected, prior to shipping.

 

The level of detail that went into the rest of this belt, and trying to fix a different  belt with some rough edges has definitely gotten me interested in leather craft. It's good to know there are knowledgeable, helpful people on this forum. Thanks again, everyone. 

[robs456]

8 hours ago, patrick2099 said:

None of the belts on the website (Beltman Belts) look like this.

Actually, a few do. But not on that scale though. Seems like they use either bad leather, too dry leather or too hard stitching strength. Or a combo.
Maybe the machine sewers here can school me/us if the wrinkling could be the result of wrong settings on a machine?  

[Riem]

On 8/19/2019 at 3:21 PM, JLSleather said:

You use the word "normal".... which can mean either normal - "common" or normal- "inevitable"

That GRAIN SEPARATION is COMMON, but is not INEVITABLE.  You see it frequently, but it's unacceptable.  That is not compression wrinkling (which you see commonly on the back of poorly done holsters).  That has actually had the grain layer of the leather distorted - the leather lacks density.  For my money, the supplier would get that one BACK. 

 

@JLSleather I just need to say your distinction between "normal-common" and "normal-inevitable" is precious! Now that's what I call discernment - the knowledgetto know the difference and then true skill of being able to pick the fly specks from the pepper... And I mean it as a compliment!