Brother LS2-F52A versus Singer 211-G165 The hunt continues!

[SilverForgeStudio]

First off thanks for reading- I apologize for taking up all the bandwidth with my questions-!  My original deal on the 20U and 29K patcher fell through- bummer deal!  I really was hoping to be posting pictures of some first stitches in my own space on this rainy Saturday night! 

But now I am looking again- and have 2 potentials for pickup next week:

1. BROTHER LS2-F52A- its old, looks worn- but the price is right... Has a K-table, Clutch motor, reverse
2. SINGER 211-G165- This unit is lightly used- has been sitting for 3 years- current owner bought it from dealer local to me. Clutch motor, It has H-style table, Thread stand and light- NO REVERSE

I have searched the forums for this Brother- only got one hit- most other interweb hits are hot rodders using it for upholstery. Looks like a "Little Brother" to the B837 and seems comparable to the Consew 206 in model style/body.

I am looking for a machine that will sew projects LESS THAN 0.5 inch- so both machines meet that.

Thread weights for the BROTHER I am not sure of- Anyone have a thought or a  hint? Im not one to assume but I imagine it will go to the 207 level as well- seems like many of the lighter industrials and lower commercial models do 69-207 weights.

The Singer 211G will handle 69-207 "top thread" according to many postings- but the bobbin maxes out at 138 in several upholstery forums.

I am leaning for the Brother- but without knowing anything about the machine (manual not avail from Brother, couldnt find anything online and its general condition...) I am leery.

Anyone use this model Brother?

Pros and Cons are welcome- I am doing my part but finding gaps in the literature on the Brother... The Singer outside of no reverse is the better "deal" but the no reverse may be a deal killer for me (larger projects I can't turn under the arm)

HELP! Im in analysis paralysis! HA! 

 

 

 

[Constabulary]

The brother seems to be similar to the Consew 206RB. The Singer has no reverse - if it had reverse I would choose the Singer.

Do not expect that upholstery type machines can all handle 207 thread - some (not all or rather a few) may handle 207 thread but most likely they have been tweaked in one or the other way once in their life. 138 is what most upholstery type machines can handle w/o problems.

Edited August 25, 2019 by Constabulary

[Wizcrafts]

Do not assume that either of those machines will allow #207 thread to go around the bobbin case without hanging up or snagging. It will probable result in a birds nest within a few stitches. The shuttles were not designed to clear that size of top thread. However, if you spend enough time customizing the hook, it may work out.

[Kohlrausch]

4 hours ago, SilverForgeStudio said:

First off thanks for reading- I apologize for taking up all the bandwidth with my questions-!  My original deal on the 20U and 29K patcher fell through- bummer deal!  I really was hoping to be posting pictures of some first stitches in my own space on this rainy Saturday night! 

But now I am looking again- and have 2 potentials for pickup next week:

1. BROTHER LS2-F52A- its old, looks worn- but the price is right... Has a K-table, Clutch motor, reverse
2. SINGER 211-G165- This unit is lightly used- has been sitting for 3 years- current owner bought it from dealer local to me. Clutch motor, It has H-style table, Thread stand and light- NO REVERSE

 

Hi, the Brother seems to miss the slider left of the stitching plate.

Greets

Ralf C.

[Wizcrafts]

9 hours ago, Kohlrausch said:

Hi, the Brother seems to miss the slider left of the stitching plate.

Greets

Ralf C.

It most certainly is missing in the photo. It may or may not use a commonly available replacement plate. If not, a piece of thick cardboard can be used to keep material from falling into the cutout. From the looks of that Brother machine, it was rode hard and put up wet! It also has a small flywheel pulley indicating that it is geared for high speed upholstery sewing.

[SilverForgeStudio]

 @Uwe

Well- looks like you can't delete a @ link after it's in on the phone! Sorry UWE...

For thread weights I understand that upholstery machines may not handle 207. Thanks for that and the flywheel tip! @Wizcrafts and @Constabulary!

Thanks @Kohlrausch... The missing plate is one reason the price is low... 

Still can't find if this brother uses "M" bobbins... Any thoughts?

The reverse isn't a deal killer but for either one I am looking at adding a servo... For the price I'm leaning on the Brother... For getting straight to work I'm on the Singer... 

Edited August 25, 2019 by SilverForgeStudio

[Wizcrafts]

3 hours ago, SilverForgeStudio said:

Still can't find if this brother uses "M" bobbins... Any thoughts?

 

According to this video, it has a large bobbin, meaning an M bobbin. Also, according the Brother, it had a large bobbin.

 

[Wizcrafts]

Here is an online manual for the Brother LS2-F52A

[SilverForgeStudio]

Thanks again Wiz- That is a video in my que to watch! Normally the promos are just sewing thicknesses- this is great info and I appreciate it. 

The download manual is awesome as well- I see that link in my google search and as I dont download things thanks to a previous virus (unless its from a dropbox I trust or google drive). 

I appreciate it.

[SARK9]

If you will compare the casting of your machine to a Consew 206RB-4, I think you will see some some pretty unique similarities. 

https://www.ebay.com/p/Consew-206rb-4-Walking-Foot-Big-Bobbin-110v-Leather-Industrial-Sewing-Machine/1458135144

I bet the slide plate for almost any of the later 206* models will fit it: (#18032)

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Slide-Plate-Complete-for-Seiko-Consew-Walking-Foot-Sewing-Machine-206RB/123780802949?hash=item1cd1e92985:g:2XQAAOSw64Nck86C

 

-DC

 

[SilverForgeStudio]

1 hour ago, SARK9 said:

If you will compare the casting of your machine to a Consew 206RB-4, I think you will see some some pretty unique similarities. 

https://www.ebay.com/p/Consew-206rb-4-Walking-Foot-Big-Bobbin-110v-Leather-Industrial-Sewing-Machine/1458135144

I bet the slide plate for almost any of the later 206* models will fit it: (#18032)

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Slide-Plate-Complete-for-Seiko-Consew-Walking-Foot-Sewing-Machine-206RB/123780802949?hash=item1cd1e92985:g:2XQAAOSw64Nck86C

 

-DC

 

Thanks DC the casting is why I am suspect and trying to get better info. Many standardized castings but what's on the inside is my concern.

Looks like it... But there again... Will it function the same?

Stay tuned! My biggest pull to the brother is reverse and stitch selector... But I'm gonna have to sew with them to know

Be safe and have a great day!

[aroh99]

The brother is also missing the spool pin. The machine is identical is the same as a consew 206. Have both a 206 and the BROTHER LS2-F52A and the parts are interchangeable. Best of luck

[SilverForgeStudio]

7 hours ago, aroh99 said:

The brother is also missing the spool pin. The machine is identical is the same as a consew 206. Have both a 206 and the BROTHER LS2-F52A and the parts are interchangeable. Best of luck

Thanks Aroh99- This will be very helpful pricing replacements too... thanks again!

[SilverForgeStudio]

I would like to thank everyone for commenting and assisting- The choice was the Brother- and I am going to start a thread for it as well. The Singer didnt have reverse and as well was more expensive.

Interesting- the Brother came with CONSEW parts manuals! 

A personal thank you to all.

@Constabulary @aroh99 @SARK9 @Wizcrafts @Kohlrausch 

[JohnInAZ]

This is an old thread, but I have an LS2-F52A, so I thought I would comment.  I bought it new around 1996, for sewing marine projects (hobby, not as a business).  In the last couple of months, I started playing around in the leather craft world.  I've been trying to use 138 thread top and bottom.  It's not working well.  I can get the tension adjusted so it sews nicely when going forward.  However, a back tack is pretty ugly on the bottom.

One problem I noticed was that it would sometimes "short stitch" when going forward from a back tack.  Focusing totally on the movement of the leather, I saw that the leather moved a little backwards as it made a stitch.  Thinking about it, the only part that moves backwards (other than the needle when it's out of the leather) is the feed dog.  This only happens for the first few stitches after a tack tack.  I began to wonder if the feed dog was catching on the jumbled stitches from the back tack.  So, I lowered the feed dog height slightly, and the problem went away.  HOWEVER, it's now somewhat finicky when removing the bobbin, because the feed dog linkage interferes.  You have to go about an inch past the hand wheel alignment mark, and then fiddle and wiggle to insert or remove the bobbin.   I'm beginning to think this really isn't an optimal machine for leather craft.  Maybe thin garment or upholstery, but not for what I would consider "leather craft".

[JohnInAZ]

I thought I would add that it appears to be a high quality machine.  Mine was made in Japan, and it shows.  The manual says that it is for "medium thick to very thick" materials, although says nothing about leather.  As Wizcrafts said, it is designed for high speed sewing, 2200 SPM.  When I bought it, it was so fast it was scary.  First addition was a servo motor to replace the clutch motor.  That helped a lot, but I still added a reduction pulley.  It's much slower now, but I still feel it's too fast for leather.

[Wizcrafts]

4 hours ago, JohnInAZ said:

As Wizcrafts said, it is designed for high speed sewing, 2200 SPM.  When I bought it, it was so fast it was scary.  First addition was a servo motor to replace the clutch motor.  That helped a lot, but I still added a reduction pulley.  It's much slower now, but I still feel it's too fast for leather.

Several years ago, I tried sewing 8 ounces of chrome tan (4-5 oz) lined with suede (3oz), with #138 thread and a #23 needle, at different speeds and found that the needle started smoking at about 9 stitches per second. Above that the smoking got worse and the thread eventually melted or shredded.

[JohnInAZ]

6 minutes ago, Wizcrafts said:

Several years ago, I tried sewing 8 ounces of chrome tan (4-5 oz) lined with suede (3oz), with #138 thread and a #23 needle, at different speeds and found that the needle started smoking at about 9 stitches per second. Above that the smoking got worse and the thread eventually melted or shredded.

As I read your comment, I was thinking, wow, 9 stitches per second is screaming fast.  Then I did a little math and realized 2200 SPM is over 36 stitches per second!

I think some of my back tack problems might be caused by the needle size.  I'm using a #22, which is a little borderline for 138 thread.  Last time I went to buy needles, I couldn't find anything larger than a #22 in a 135 x 16 size.

[Wizcrafts]

1 hour ago, JohnInAZ said:

I'm using a #22, which is a little borderline for 138 thread. 

I only use a #22 with #138 thread when sewing soft temper material. Anything that is dense will be easier to sew with a #23 needle. It also calls for more torque to punch through.