round magnet Shielding magnetic field of round magnet

[Ashish]

Hello all,

Apologize for fancy title, but it is not that much complex. I am armature in leather crafts and learning from this great community.

Now on topic, recently I made design for one zip wallet. where it has one side, 3 slots for cards. And just in-front of cards, I have to placed 25x2 mm round magnet for some other purpose. For reference, I have attached design. Now as you can see in photo, Black round is magnet (which I can hide by placing yellow square leather on it). Now above that magnet has 3 slots for cards, and slots continues behind magnet (shown as sky blue card).

Now my concern is, magnet can easily destroy atm cards' black magnetic tape (demagnetized and erase info on cards). So I have to put something in-between magnet and cards to protect atm cards. There are ferromagnetic metals that can shield magnetic field for some extend. But they all are metal and cant be sew. I did some research on magnet and came to know that, either I put some ferromagnetic metal sheet inbetween or atleast 3-5mm thick material that would be enough to protect cards. 3-5 mm materials would be make wallet more thick and I am looking for another thin option. Anybody came across this type of situation? and what can be remedy for this. Or anybody know any thin material that can shield magnetic wave good enough and can easily put in linings.

 

Thanks in advance.

[kgg]

The amount of magnetic field is not only going to depend on the size of magnet but the type magnet you are planning on using. The best solution is to remove the magnet from the design and come up with a different method of attachment otherwise you may have some unhappy customers with scramble info on their cards.

kgg

[Rockoboy]

If the magnetic is for a closure, I would be trying to use Velcro.

If there is a different purpose for the magnet being there, any further ideas would depend on the purpose of the magnet.

[mikesc]

Many countries are now on "Chip and PIN"*, ( mag stripe is so insecure it is ridiculous ) so magnetic closures are OK for them..depends on where your target market is.

Also known as EMV cards.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EMV

Edited September 2, 2019 by mikesc

[Ashish]

16 hours ago, kgg said:

The amount of magnetic field is not only going to depend on the size of magnet but the type magnet you are planning on using. The best solution is to remove the magnet from the design and come up with a different method of attachment otherwise you may have some unhappy customers with scramble info on their cards.

kgg

Hey thanks for the response. Right now I am going to make one with few layers for protection and trial and error method on my own cards. I will use wallet first for few months and if it it okay with my cards then only I will provide it to my customers. Meanwhile also trying to find other in-layer thin material. At last if there is none working then I would like to remove magnet entirely.

[Ashish]

11 hours ago, Rockoboy said:

If the magnetic is for a closure, I would be trying to use Velcro.

If there is a different purpose for the magnet being there, any further ideas would depend on the purpose of the magnet.

Magnet is not for closure. It is for pocket purpose. manly metal things that can directly stick on it and remain still in wallet. Also I search and there are one-sided magnets in market for the refrigerators. But it is not strong enough tru leather layer. Would like to know if there are strong one sided magnets available. or any other option.

 

Thanks.

11 hours ago, mikesc said:

Many countries are now on "Chip and PIN"*, ( mag stripe is so insecure it is ridiculous ) so magnetic closures are OK for them..depends on where your target market is.

Also known as EMV cards.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EMV

Hey thanks for the link. But it is very new here in my country, most of the cards still have magnetic strip. But nowadays new cards come with chip.

[chrisash]

Intrigued as to what these metal things could be 

[Ashish]

2 hours ago, chrisash said:

Intrigued as to what these metal things could be 

Hey, Its for small objects like keys, pendrive with metal body or coins if it made from metal that attracts magnet. I haven't made one, I will post picture here when I make one. Its quite innovative design. Thanks.

[mikesc]

Ummm..You don't really want to use strong magnets near "pen drives"..You'll get away with "most of the time", just until you don't.

Edited September 3, 2019 by mikesc
typo

[Ashish]

48 minutes ago, mikesc said:

Ummm..You don't really want to use strong magnets near "pen drives"..You'll get away with "most of the time", just until you don't.

Hey there, Dont worry about pendrive, as it is very safe near magnets. pendrives and SSD are pretty safe with magnet see here. Again, I would experiment for few month with my atm cards aswell as with pendrive to see any effect before I make more wallets. Also prototype is almost ready and I succeed to shield most of magnetic field but wallet get thick, I will post few pictures here.

[mikesc]

I have worked with computers for nearly 50 years now..I trust someone posting on quora , about anything ,to be accurate about as far as I could throw my house. your choice..your risk..or probably your customers risk.."pretty safe" with magnets, is not  "absolutely safe" with magnets.Try recovering data from a thoroughly gaussed memory chip.. sometimes it will not read at all..or read partially at best.

USB drives ( I hate the phrase "pen drives", you don't write letters with them ) have ( at the opposite end from the USB connector ) holes or other systems for attaching unbreakable cords / chains etc to them, so that you cannot lose them..

I have ( on a lanyard, which lives around my neck ) an USB drive, with a complete Operating system ( linux ) which allows me to be able to keep a clone of the machine I'm typing this on..and of 3 of my other 11 computers ..with me at all times..it also allows me to fix Win machines anywhere..Keep your USB drives on a lanyard around your neck, not in your pocket.

Edited September 3, 2019 by mikesc

[Ashish]

47 minutes ago, mikesc said:

I have worked with computers for nearly 50 years now..I trust someone posting on quora , about anything ,to be accurate about as far as I could throw my house. your choice..your risk..or probably your customers risk.."pretty safe" with magnets, is not  "absolutely safe" with magnets.Try recovering data from a thoroughly gaussed memory chip.. sometimes it will not read at all.

You are right, It might messed up. Hence I should experiment with my stuff first for quite long time. But as far as I researched on usb drives, all articles says it is safe. It need very strong magnet that can suck iron from your blood cell to destroy usb-drives and SSD (from internet). Here are few links apart from quora.   Link1 Link2   Link3   Link4

Again it's trial and error method, which I need to do with my stuff first. Can't risk customer's stuff

 

 

Edited September 3, 2019 by Ashish

[Ashish]

Here is prototype. Ignore the stitches as it is done by local tailor on manual sewing machine (I am designer and works with leather artisans, right now none available so did try with tailor). I find very detail article on "destroying/safe distance for credit cards' magnetic stripe with magnets". Also article writer mention few points for wallet/purse makers if they want to includes magnets in their design any near credit cards. What are safe distance and how to calculate it. here is link if anyone want to look after.

[mikesc]

Sorry Ashish, but all 4 of your links ( not going to list them.. and discuss them one by one ) are just the usual uninformed people on internet..
Question..Why do you need a magnet on the inside of a purse to keep things inside the purse , which are already, inside the purse ? If the zip is closed, the ferrous* objects will stay in there inside the purse anyway..and if the zip is open, the person using the purse has bigger problems ( like their cards falling out and being found and used on the web "card holder not present" transactions where all the thief ( defined here as someone who finds the card and uses it ) needs is the card, with name , number and CVV number ) than worrying about if their USB Drive or House key is magnetised to the inside of the purse.

Practically..the purse should be attached by a chain ( see what are called "biker's wallets" ) to the belt or similar..so that the entire purse ( with all it's contents ) cannot be lost.

*Most USB drive metal** enclosures ( the good ones ) are stainless steel, not all stainless steel is attracted to magnets ( a rough test for if an object is stainless steel is does it stick to a magnet, if not it is stainless steel, or aluminium, usually )..most keys to valuable things..are not steel , they are brass or other alloys, not many of them are attracted to magnets ..Most people who have more than one key..have their keys on a key ring..not in their wallet..For example, when I leave the house, I have 6 keys with me..on a key ring.. 2 for the house doors , two entrances, 1 for the gate, 1 for the letter box ( it is next to the gate, not in the house door ) 2 for the car..Keys fro my other vehicles stay in the house unless I'm using the others, each vehicle "key set" has also keys for doors, gate and letterbox..on a key ring, with the vehicle keys. each key ring, is attached with a chain to my belt..I am not going to lose my keyrings when I'm out, but I could lose a wallet / purse from a pocket..unless it was attached by a chain..separate from the keys , which are attached by another chain..

The "invention" you have "designed"..is as we say..a solution, looking for a problem, that does not really exist.

** far more are plastic..ABS ( various kinds ) and or Acrylic..or metal ( rarely is the metal, ( on the good ones ) attracted by magnets, apart from the USB connection part itself ) with ABS and / or acrylic.

ps..Find another tailor, the stitching done by your current tailor is awful, whether done on a manual or powered machine, even for a prototype..

 

Buy your own machine..even a basic cast Iron Singer Domestic Treadle machine can sew that type of leather, and practice making things yourself..a good designer( which is I presume what you wish to become ) should always know how to make what they design themselves, and actually be capable of making it very well themselves.

Edited September 3, 2019 by mikesc

[Ashish]

9 minutes ago, mikesc said:

Sorry Ashish, but all 4 of your links ( not going to list them.. and discuss them one by one ) are just the usual uninformed people on internet..
Question..Why do you need a magnet on the inside of a purse to keep things inside the purse , which are already, inside the purse ? If the zip is closed, the ferrous* objects will stay in there inside the purse anyway..and if the zip is open, the person using the purse has bigger problems ( like their cards falling out and being found and used on the web "card holder not present" transactions where all the thief ( defined here as someone who finds the card and uses it ) needs is the card, with name , number and CVV number ) than worrying about if their USB Drive or House key is magnetised to the inside of the purse.

Practically..the purse should be attached by a chain ( see what are called "biker's wallets" ) to the belt or similar..so that the entire purse ( with all it's contents ) cannot be lost.

Most USB drive metal enclosures are stainless steel, not all stainless steel is attracted to magnets ( a rough test for if an object is stainless steel is does it stick to a magnet, if not it is stainless steel, or aluminium, usually )..most keys to valuable things..are not steel , they are brass or other alloys, not many of them are attracted to magnets ..Most people who have more than one key..have their keys on a key ring..not in their wallet..For example, when I leave the house, I have 6 keys with me..on a key ring.. 2 for the house doors , two entrances, 1 for the gate, 1 for the letter box ( it is next to the gate, not in the house door ) 2 for the car..Keys fro my other vehicles stay in the house unless I'm using the others, each vehicle "key set" has also keys for doors, gate and letterbox..on a key ring, with the vehicle keys. each key ring, is attached with a chain to my belt..I am not going to lose my keyrings when I'm out, but I could lose a wallet / purse from a pocket..unless it was attached by a chain..separate from the keys , which are attached by another chain..

The "invention" you have "designed"..is as we say..a solution, looking for a problem, that does not really exist.

ps..Find another tailor, their stitching is awful, even for a prototype..

Hey thanks for the in-depth response. Mainly I wanted to make tab for specifically key there where I've placed magnet. (tab like where head of key stuck in leather tab and key won't fall). I see many keys have different size of head and teeth that may or may not insert tru tab. So I put small dog hook at middle of wallet (there you can see little brass O ring in picture) for keys and wanted to use this empty space so put magnet. In my country most of currency coins attracts to magnet so I can put 4-5 coins easily. Never had intention of putting USB drive there but I see it as an option. I would like to use that magnet as coin holder or my home key tab as middle dog hook I uses for my car key. Many combinations there. Plus never fall any card or single coin when zip is open. I was just playing with design modification, may or may not like other peoples/customers. As I earlier said, I just wanted to use that empty space as I move key fob in middle. Any good suggestion instead of magnet? (use of that space below cards)

And yes, stitching is really awful. Most of time I hand stitched products or to be done hand stitched. I uses machine stitches very rarely.

[mikesc]

Quote

Any good suggestion instead of magnet?

Small ( well OK , "tiny" ) piece of folded leather, folded into a coin purse ( think about the folds, test with cardboard, you'll get various designs that will fold up flat and with secured sides .. Use Velcro to close it..Could even just have a patch of leather there sewn on 3 sides with a Velcro closure  on the 4th side ( upward facing "side" or edge *)..other face of Velcro sewn to the wallet liner..Sew Velcro in Box with X  pattern..Don't use the self adhesive version, it is rubbish in hot areas or after a few months, and it is awkward to sew through..HTH

 

Instead of Velcro, you could use the kind of "leaf spring" closure that is used for some eyeglasses cases or coin purses, or you could use more complex folding to make a self sealing coin purse there.

Btw..Never post detailed pictures of your keys on the internet..I could make a key from your picture ( I have the scale, and can read the number on it )..and some people live much closer to you than I do..and may know who you are and where you live and that you post here..It is like posting on facebook that you are going on holiday..having previously posted enough on there for people to know who one is and where one lives..Or posting the names of your family and your / their DOB etc and the names of your pets, or photos of your family..Search "social engineering" and "security".

Edited September 3, 2019 by mikesc

[Ashish]

24 minutes ago, mikesc said:

Small ( well OK , "tiny" ) piece of folded leather, folded into a coin purse ( think about the folds, test with cardboard, you'll get various designs that will fold up flat and with secured sides .. Use Velcro to close it..Could even just have a patch of leather there sewn on 3 sides with a Velcro closure  on the 4th side ( upward facing "side" or edge *)..other face of Velcro sewn to the wallet liner..Sew Velcro in Box with X  pattern..Don't use the self adhesive version, it is rubbish in hot areas or after a few months, and it is awkward to sew through..HTH

 

Instead of Velcro, you could use the kind of "leaf spring" closure that is used for some eyeglasses cases or coin purses, or you could use more complex folding to make a self sealing coin purse there.

Btw..Never post detailed pictures of your keys on the internet..I could make a key from your picture ( I have the scale, and can read the number on it )..and some people live much closer to you than I do..and may know who you are and where you live and that you post here..It is like posting on facebook that you are going on holiday..having previously posted enough on there for people to know who one is and where one lives..Or posting the names of your family and your / their DOB etc and the names of your pets, or photos of your family..Search "social engineering" and "security".

Hey thanks, will make some patterns for small pouch that can be placed there. I don't get "leaf spring" type closure, can you give me picture of it if you have?. And thanks for that security point. Noted, will be careful. (btw that key was just lying around in my room)

[mikesc]

https://www.tandyleather.com/en/product/squeeze-frame

Tandy apparently only have that one size..But they exist in larger and smaller sizes, may even be made in India ?

More sizes here

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Internal-Frame-closure-glasses-purses/dp/B00MUR4F1Q

Edited September 3, 2019 by mikesc

[Ashish]

7 minutes ago, mikesc said:

https://www.tandyleather.com/en/product/squeeze-frame

Tandy apparently only have that one size..But they exist in larger and smaller sizes, may even be made in India ?

More sizes here

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Internal-Frame-closure-glasses-purses/dp/B00MUR4F1Q

Oh, Okay get it. Thanks for the links. Yep, available here. Will try it

[chrisash]

I think you need to really ask what your potential customers want in a wallet, don't suggest just ask them to list the 5 or ten most important things they would like, I think you will find that the magnet idea is a dud, as Mike states you have invented a solution to a problem that does not exist and therefore only acceptable to a tiny, tiny, tiny number of potential customers

It looks like you live in India where you have two main styles of clothing Indian and western, with the western style catered for in the millions, maybe a wallet for the indian style dress would be a better opportunity to have a original design  maybe wallets that are hidden from view inside the indian dress jackets or money belts or a combination of both

First find out what your potential customers would like, but no prompting, just give them a sheet of paper and pen and ask them to write down what they would like

[Ashish]

20 minutes ago, chrisash said:

I think you need to really ask what your potential customers want in a wallet, don't suggest just ask them to list the 5 or ten most important things they would like, I think you will find that the magnet idea is a dud, as Mike states you have invented a solution to a problem that does not exist and therefore only acceptable to a tiny, tiny, tiny number of potential customers

It looks like you live in India where you have two main styles of clothing Indian and western, with the western style catered for in the millions, maybe a wallet for the indian style dress would be a better opportunity to have a original design  maybe wallets that are hidden from view inside the indian dress jackets or money belts or a combination of both

First find out what your potential customers would like, but no prompting, just give them a sheet of paper and pen and ask them to write down what they would like

Thanks for the tips. If you ask me about leather products trend in India, people are buying more "organized type" of products nowadays (opinions from other may differ). By "organized type" means products that have tabs/pouch/pockets for specific things (like thisisground products). Even clutches and tote have special spaces for pens/keys etc. This wallet which I made is attempt to fit in organized compact mini wallet. Yes, there are also many companies here offering "Indian style" of products. And it is evergreen for seller as usual. But more people are buying modern designs here.

That survey of "what they would like" is good suggestion. thanks will try