Constabulary Report post Posted September 11, 2019 (edited) On my last road trip (before visiting the former Singer factory) I picked up a Singer 16KSV11 machine. When I bought it I already knew I have no use for it but could not resist -> Vintage Singer industrial machines and in this case another SV machine made me weak So here is is - yet not touched or test sewn. Interesting features are the jump foot, the very heavy fly wheel and a long beak shuttle similar to the Singer 17 shuttles. Table plate is badly worm eaten. Built in 1930 as it seems. Some pictures Edited September 11, 2019 by Constabulary Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mikesc Report post Posted September 11, 2019 Will it be grey ? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Constabulary Report post Posted September 11, 2019 Honestly - rather not because I don´t know what to do with it. I have no use but it is a nice and rare machine. I will revitalize it and then see what to do with it. Maybe I´ll keep it then and paint it purple with gray flower design - or the other way around No - really no idea... I bought it right out of curiosity. I have 132K6 and 111G156 so there is no gap this machine could fill. So.... ATM I just wanted to share pictures and as much information as I can get just for the case someone else will find a machine like this. I´m already checking for information and similar machines or different machine that could share parts. So far not much success - as usual on SV machines. But I figured the long beak shuttle is a bit different compared with the Class 17 shuttle. Its not the same as it seems. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CowboyBob Report post Posted September 11, 2019 I've never seen a hopping foot one like this. Nice find! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Constabulary Report post Posted September 11, 2019 2 hours ago, CowboyBob said: I've never seen a hopping foot one like this. Nice find! I know thats why I bought it (+ the heavy fly wheel). If it was a plain 16K straight stitcher I wouldn't have bought it. Not even for parts. But this one is quite special. Well, it´s a SV machine. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dikman Report post Posted September 12, 2019 You must be a magnet for these machines, they always seem to find you! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
toxo Report post Posted September 12, 2019 Good to see you happy Folker. What does SV mean? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Constabulary Report post Posted September 12, 2019 SV mean Special Variant / Special Version of what we think is a predecessor of later standard machines or machines with special technical features or special accessories that differ form the standard "off the shelf" models or the like. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
toxo Report post Posted September 12, 2019 So what's different about this one? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mikesc Report post Posted September 12, 2019 (edited) See his sentence in the first post beginning with "Interesting features... There may be more... SV machines were sometimes "one offs" .. Often the "special things" got incorporated in other machine made in larger runs, but sometimes they altered a machine , or made a "special" for a customer .and an order for "more of the same" never came..so some SVs are unique..with some parts being "unobtanium" unfortunately, which is where the inventiveness of some ( such as Constabulary ) comes in. Edited September 12, 2019 by mikesc typo Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
toxo Report post Posted September 12, 2019 8 minutes ago, mikesc said: See his sentence in the first post beginning with "Interesting features... There may be more... SV machines were sometimes "one offs" .. OK, so what's a jump foot (meaning how does it work?) and a long beak shuttle? Some of us didn't cut our teeth on a sewing machine. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mikesc Report post Posted September 12, 2019 Jump foot..top foot pulls whatever is under it towards the back ( like a standard domestic sewing machine top foot, which you'll have seen ? )..but when it reaches the back..it jumps forwards again to repeat the action..patchers do this too. Long beak shuttle..you have round bobbins..and torpedo shaped ones ( the latter are usually referred to as shuttles, because they "shuttle"* ) ..long beaked refers to the end or beak, which on this one is longer than would be usual.. Someone probably has some pictures of both, maybe even some video of both things..maybe Constabulary has taken, or will take some and post them. Sewing machines is a bit like train spotting or car or motorcycle enthusiasts..there is some "arcane" terminology , although with sewing machines the precise terms are usually pretty descriptive. *Some bobbins look like shuttles..and some "shuttles", don't "shuttle", they spin..it all depends..which is why when someone says they are having a problem, or how can they do...the usual reply is post pictures and or take a video, so that everyone can be sure that they are talking about the same part(s) actions etc.. It is even worse in French, where even the pros sometimes use "slang" words to describe parts or actions..or will say the equivalent of "triple action " top feed, bottom feed and needle feed all working together ( which is also called compound feed ) when they mean "double action"..top and bottom feed , or either top or bottom feed combined with needle feed.."jump foot" in French has so many varieties of description , that you could shake a stick at them..and they vary with the age of the speaker, and where they are from. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
toxo Report post Posted September 12, 2019 Thanks Mike (I think). So presumably the bottom plate is smooth and the top foot (or needlebar?) acts like an upside down feed dog? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CowboyBob Report post Posted September 12, 2019 (edited) Here's one I picked up that didn't have a model# tag on it from 1891,it has the long beak too.It looks like a 16 class to me. Edited September 12, 2019 by CowboyBob Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mikesc Report post Posted September 12, 2019 (edited) " the top foot (or needlebar?) acts like an upside down feed dog?" ..yep..you've got it :) .On a patcher the bottom is smooth ( no feed dog ) on other machines it can vary, feed dog, or no feed dog.. That one is for when you have ten minutes ( per day for many many days ) to spare to renovate it eh Bob :) "Violin" type base too.. Edited September 12, 2019 by mikesc Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
toxo Report post Posted September 12, 2019 I do see the attraction. There's not much in the way of machinery that was so well designed and built 150 yrs ago that they can still be used today. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dikman Report post Posted September 12, 2019 10 hours ago, toxo said: Thanks Mike (I think). So presumably the bottom plate is smooth and the top foot (or needlebar?) acts like an upside down feed dog? Except if you look at Constabulary's machine it has a feed dog. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mikesc Report post Posted September 12, 2019 That's why I said "On a patcher the bottom is smooth ( no feed dog ) on other machines it can vary, feed dog, or no feed dog.." However..I can't remember* which machines other than patchers, have a smooth bottom plate, apart from embroidery machines..and mine ( Singer 20U , zig zag and straight stitcher, which can do embroidery ) doesn't have a jump foot..Then again freehand embroidery is done without a foot attached. *Maybe someone can ? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SARK9 Report post Posted September 13, 2019 Singer model 78's....since we are in olden machines. -DC Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mikesc Report post Posted September 13, 2019 Thank you DC..that would have kept me awake trying to remember one. :) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Constabulary Report post Posted September 13, 2019 (edited) Top feed (material feeding by a mechanically driven and mainly toothed presser foot) and jump foot are different. The jump foot goes forward with the feed dog but is not driven mechanically. They are usually spring loaded and jump back at the end of the stitch cycle. Advantage of the jump foot and top feed compared with the plain static presser foot is that there is no friction between the material and the presser foot and the foot puts permanent pressure on the material so thats a safer material feeding especially when when you have multiple layers of slick material like faux leather or the like. They also can be adjusted to "climb" over raised seams. Singer, to my best knowledge, has called these feet "vibrating presser feet". But as always no one knows all machines and there might be differences or variants so this is just my explanation. There are several different jump foot systems on "leather trade" machines. Some well known machines are Singer 132K6, Singer 45K89 or Adler 4, and 5 or Adler 104 and 105 (depends on subclass) and several others. The long beak shuttle is a hook type with no bobbin case. The hook has a spring loaded "trap door" which holds the bobbin in place. Its is an oscillating hook like the CB hook but as far as I know (or guess) it can handle larger thread sizes but it has a smaller type bobbin f.i. compared with the Singer 15 or 31 type CB hook sewing machine. This is a class 15 CB Hook (I have no CB machines so pic stole from the WWW) And this is a long beak shuttle hook from the above Singer 16 machine Edited September 13, 2019 by Constabulary Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mikesc Report post Posted September 13, 2019 Ah..I had a long beak shuttle hook "backwards"..that is one of the "shuttles" , which isn't, and doesn't..so ignore that incorrect part of my post back up there. Very clean, or have you already begun "restoring" the machine ? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Constabulary Report post Posted September 14, 2019 still checking things - todays "challenge": the needle Naaa easy task, right? NOPE! Fortunately one original needle was insert... took a measure... hmmm odd needle system (46.5mm long)... so I thought I set it to 135x17 - as always - easy task I thought... removed some dirt from the NB connector and was looking for the set screw... none on the front, none left, none right - WTF - how did they do this? Taking a very close look at the front side of the NB connector I figured this freakin needle bar is pinned What was todays challenge: the needle finding a needle bar connector for the 7.2mm NB I guess a 31K part with # 24041 could fit - hope I have something similar. But the other end of the connector has to fit to the NB connecting link - hoping Singer didn´t put in another "Special Part" in here (have to check the #) So today we are diving through some junk boxes Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Constabulary Report post Posted September 14, 2019 (edited) Measure twice - cut once... Always good to compare needles direly and not just by measurements. The orig. needle seems to be something like 29x3 / 332 but with a longer tip. The needle eye is almost in the same position as on 135x17 / 135x16 (just a tad higher here) - so it should work. So no junk box diving today. First test sewing later today.... Edited September 14, 2019 by Constabulary Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Constabulary Report post Posted September 14, 2019 (edited) Yep - the135x17 needle works well. Machine works very well, really nice stitches with 140 needle and #25 Aman RASANT thread. Check spring needs to be replaced (oddly bent) but still works. Sooo - I will clean it, replace the check spring and then... I don´t know... A quick video of the 1st sewing attempt after I don´t know how many years or decades. Edited September 14, 2019 by Constabulary Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
