Sewing Bulky Foam On Singer 4411

[AusSimon]

Hey All,

I have a Singer 4411 and it sews my 4oz leather beautifully.

However when i bond a 1/2" of foam to the bottom, the machine fails to pick up the bobbin thread... 

Am I doing something wrong? I have tried to increase the presser foot tension, but no luck there...

When the presser foot is down the total thickness of the fabric is 3mm (see photo). I would have thought that would be no issues for this machine?

Any help would be HUGELY appreciated.

Regards,

Simon

[mikesc]

The foam is affecting the loop ( what the hook goes through, at the needle scarf ) formation.

[AusSimon]

1 hour ago, mikesc said:

The foam is affecting the loop ( what the hook goes through, at the needle scarf ) formation.

Interesting... that sounds about right.

Is there a way to overcome it?

[kgg]

2 hours ago, AusSimon said:

I have tried to increase the presser foot tension, but no luck there...

I am going to assume you are using V69 thread. My  suggestion would be try a sample with the leather on top, 1/2" foam layer next and a sheet of ordinary paper on the bottom. If that works the paper can be torn off latter. Another suggestion would be to back off the presser foot tension so the material just moves rather then trying to compress it so much and use the largest leather needle you can get.

kgg

[mikesc]

You might try switching to titanium needles, and possibly ( depending on the suitability of the item that you are making ) using silicone lubricated thread, foam has a lot more frictional drag than leather, going up a needle size will help.

Yes ..adding a sheet of "tear off" ( stabiliser* ) paper on the bottom of the foam will help, it stops the lower surface of the foam getting dragged down with the needle and affecting the loop.There is a "tear off" paper sold for embroidery work ( to be nearest to the needle plate ) that will achieve the same effect..But lightweight copy paper ( 70 gsm ) will work, and is cheaper ,but the "tearing off" has to be done more carefully so as not to damage the foam or the stitches..If you can leave the paper on ( depends what you are sewing and what it is going to be used for ) then you can use "non woven" textile instead of paper, and leave it on ( it can be torn off , but again carefully ) the kind that is sold for wrapping plants against light frost works..even tissue paper ( the kind used for wrapping presents or delicate objects** ) works..experiment to find the most efficient, convenient.

* Can be bought on a roll, various widths and weights. colours etc.
**Very similar in some weights to stabiliser paper, but usually cheaper.

ps..you are aware that the Singer 4411 is just a domestic machine with "heavy duty" written on it ? The 105w motor is only very slightly more powerful than the "pot" ( 90w - 100w ) motors on many old cast iron machines..Many modern domestic machines have motors at around 100w..which is a long way off the 550w of a modern small ( there are larger , more powerful servo motors ) servo motor on an industrial..and everything on a true industrial ( and even on some of the older cast iron domestic Singers, and other Brands ) is much heavier duty .

Edited September 17, 2019 by mikesc
typo

[AusSimon]

Hi Mike,

Thank you so much for your in depth response. I truly appreciate it. This has really helped me understand how the sewing process works.

I will try a combination of all those things and let you know how I go. 

The foam that I am using is backed with fabric, should this not do the job of the paper?

And yeah, its not the best machine ever thats for sure. however I was just really surprised that it could sew the leather so nicely but then everything fell apart when I added some foam.

 

[mikesc]

Depends if the fabric backing is stiff enough, if it is flexible it will be "dipping" down with the needle as it comes out of the bottom of the foam and enters the hole in the needle plate..the friction in foam ( try running your hand across the surface of foam to feel the friction compared with fabric or lightweight ( 2 - 3oz leather, lambskin or similar ) ..can make it very awkward to sew.

If the bottom of your stitches when sewing leather alone is good enough, you could try sewing the "sandwich" upside down, the leather on the bottom, the foam in the middle, and the fabric backing on the top..You may well get a better loop for the hook to catch forming that way..worth a try..with foot pressure normal, and backed off a bit..

Draw guide lines ( if you try "upside down" sewing ) on the fabric to follow ( for your seams ) or on the paper if you try paper..You can also try painters masking tape ( the kind that peels off easily ) stuck along your seam lines, with your seam lines drawn on the tape..peel off the tape from the fabric when done.

Edited September 17, 2019 by mikesc

[AusSimon]

hey guys,

Just wanted to give you an update. I tried absolutely everything, paper on the bottom, titanium larger needles (the largest on my machine) lower the presser foot tension, teflot foot, walking foot, small holed foot, thinner thread on the bottom and top. 

It appears this machine is just not built to deal with such a situation. Which is completly understandable.

But i just want to thank you both again for your advice and help. I greatly appreciate it.

I am going to start scouring the internet (in Canada) for a used machine, see what I can come up with over the next week or so without breaking the bank too much. I have spotted a Consew 206RB-3 for $1000... any thoughts on if it is worth that money? I don't see many around for sale.

Cheers,

Simon

[Sturme]

how about bias tape or ribbon on the inside?

[AusSimon]

Hi Sturme, thank you for weighing in, but honestly I am just kind of over trying to make the machine do something it probably cant