Broken screw

[TomG]

I was tightening the screw that holds the needle in the bar and the head broke off. Inswear I wasn't cranking down on it. 

But the screw is now recessed in the hole.

I am afraid that the screw is too small for standard extractors.

Suggestions?

[AndyM]

Left hand drill bit turned very slowly. If the screw that broke wasnt cross threaded all you have to do is get it to budge a sharp left hand drill bit might bite it enough for it to spin out. Auto parts stores sell them. Lube it first and you could heat it with a hair dryer or heat gun it may help. 

[TomG]

Thanks. I'll check into that. Never heard of a left hand drill bit

 

 

[CowboyBob]

If the needle is out of the hole it will take the pressure off the screw & I've turned them out many times w/a needle.You never get a drill in there to do any good,if you did you'd ruin the threads since it's so small.

Edited October 12, 2019 by CowboyBob

[Gunnarsson]

Pictures? Every broken screw is a unique case, making different methods most suitable to solve the problem.

[TomG]

On 10/12/2019 at 6:58 AM, CowboyBob said:

If the needle is out of the hole it will take the pressure off the screw & I've turned them out many times w/a needle.You never get a drill in there to do any good,if you did you'd ruin the threads since it's so small.

Not sure if I can pull the needle out as it is secure, but I'll try it when I get to the shop tomorrow.
Do you know what size screw it takes?

 

[CowboyBob]

I've carefully used vice-grips & don't over tighten or you'll break it,but just alittle twist as you pull straight down usually works for me.Different machines take different screws,what do you have?

 

[TomG]

2 hours ago, CowboyBob said:

I've carefully used vice-grips & don't over tighten or you'll break it,but just alittle twist as you pull straight down usually works for me.Different machines take different screws,what do you have?

 

Consew 227-R2

 

[CowboyBob]

That is a 9/64"x36 tpi.

[Wizcrafts]

2 hours ago, CowboyBob said:

That is a 9/64"x36 tpi.

I could use a couple of those!

[TomG]

As an FYI, the Consew part number is B140553. I'm waiting to hear if my local dealer has any in stock. Fingers crossed.

 

[TomG]

On 10/14/2019 at 12:35 PM, Wizcrafts said:

I could use a couple of those!

I just picked up 2. I got home and tried to remove the old screw and wound up buggering the hole.
So, I am going to have to replace the needle bar.
If the bar I buy comes with one already, I'll be glad to mail you the 2 extras.
I'll let you know.

 

[Frodo]

drill the broken screw nout 

On 10/11/2019 at 9:02 PM, TomG said:

I was tightening the screw that holds the needle in the bar and the head broke off. Inswear I wasn't cranking down on it. 

But the screw is now recessed in the hole.

I am afraid that the screw is too small for standard extractors.

Suggestions?

you need to break out the dremal tool with an abrasive cut off  wheel,,,run the dremal and wear the abrasive  wheel down  on a piece of metal,to the size you feel is small enough for the task

very carefully, cut groove in the busted screw,  

then use  small screw driver in the groove to back the screw out

[TomG]

7 hours ago, Frodo said:

drill the broken screw nout 

you need to break out the dremal tool with an abrasive cut off  wheel,,,run the dremal and wear the abrasive  wheel down  on a piece of metal,to the size you feel is small enough for the task

very carefully, cut groove in the busted screw,  

then use  small screw driver in the groove to back the screw out

Thanks, but it broke off too far into the hole. I did drill it out, but slipped and damaged the threads. So, Iml replacing the bar.

[Frodo]

26 minutes ago, TomG said:

Thanks, but it broke off too far into the hole. I did drill it out, but slipped and damaged the threads. So, Iml replacing the bar.

can you drill a hole same size as screw then retap one size larger, use a different screw?

[TomG]

39 minutes ago, Frodo said:

can you drill a hole same size as screw then retap one size larger, use a different screw?

I suppose I could, but I would either have to drill all the way through the original hole, or buy a bottoming tap in the small size I'd need. I'd still have to pull the bar to do this. It's just easier to replace with new and not have an oddball machine .
But, I appreciate the idea.
 

[CowboyBob]

1 hour ago, Frodo said:

tcan you drill a hole same size as screw then retap one size larger, use a different screw?

The bar is made of chrome steel you'd never be able to tap it, we sell the bars new for $10.00.

Edited October 17, 2019 by CowboyBob

[SolarLeatherMachines]

For future reference, it's possible to use a small, thin cutting disc on a dremel, and cut ACROSS the screw hole.  Then cut down into the bar and into the broken screw, creating a flat head screwdriver slot.  You should be able to then use a small screw driver to turn it out.  The existing threads are minimally affected and still work well.  The cuts across the rod are minimal, and don't really weaken a steel bar that has a tensile strength of 57,300 psi.  Obviously, this is a last option...but it's still an option.  

[Frodo]

1 hour ago, CowboyBob said:

The bar is made of chrome steel you'd never be able to tap it, we sell the bars new for $10.00.

10 bucks?

LOL  not worth buying a tap and bit they would cost 20

 

[nylonRigging]

8 hours ago, Frodo said:

10 bucks?

LOL  not worth buying a tap and bit they would cost 20

This what he said ....LOL .  You also pay more for shipping cost than new rod cost , & That exactly what I did on last needle screw that snapped ragged edge and was a NoGo on thread-out . it not that hard to remove and drop new fresh rod in .

.

 

 

[TomG]

9 hours ago, Frodo said:

10 bucks?

LOL  not worth buying a tap and bit they would cost 20

 

Exactly.
I ordered it today and hopefully Bob was able to get it in today's mail for me. 

[TomG]

29 minutes ago, nylonRigging said:

This what he said ....LOL .  You also pay more for shipping cost than new rod cost , & That exactly what I did on last needle screw that snapped ragged edge and was a NoGo on thread-out . it not that hard to remove and drop new fresh rod in .

.

 

 

I did notice that it appears that the needle rod won't just drop out of the bottom of the machine. Bob said something about removing a plate or something. I haven't looked at it in depth yet though.
Any tips you'd care to share?

 

[nylonRigging]

 

59 minutes ago, TomG said:

I did notice that it appears that the needle rod won't just drop out of the bottom of the machine. Bob said something about removing a plate or something. I haven't looked at it in depth yet though.
Any tips you'd care to share?

 

Only machine models I have removed and dropped new rods in were guided In/Out top . ( Most Machines ) The Rod just just removes Vert. guide straight Up and out ? . On that cylinder bed, ( 227 consew ) I would think the dogs and bobbin assembly would be in the way to drop out the bottom ? 

Either way, ' by design' if that the way it has to go,  then not that big a deal to disassemble a few things and put back  to replace it . It might suck but if has to be done ( Not much Choice in the mater ) ,then you will also learn a little more about your machine .

.

edit add: ( free shipping ) .. https://www.ebay.com/i/162723734428?chn=ps&norover=1&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-117182-37290-0&mkcid=2&itemid=162723734428&targetid=595076263608&device=c&mktype=pla&googleloc=9032898&poi=&campaignid=6470636535&mkgroupid=77538519077&rlsatarget=pla-595076263608&abcId=1140476&merchantid=110365109&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIq-atsNyk5QIVFdVkCh21QgiQEAQYASABEgKLUPD_BwE

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Edited October 18, 2019 by nylonRigging

[TomG]

On 10/17/2019 at 9:58 PM, nylonRigging said:

 

Only machine models I have removed and dropped new rods in were guided In/Out top . ( Most Machines ) The Rod just just removes Vert. guide straight Up and out ? . On that cylinder bed, ( 227 consew ) I would think the dogs and bobbin assembly would be in the way to drop out the bottom ? 

Either way, ' by design' if that the way it has to go,  then not that big a deal to disassemble a few things and put back  to replace it . It might suck but if has to be done ( Not much Choice in the mater ) ,then you will also learn a little more about your machine .

.

edit add: ( free shipping ) .. https://www.ebay.com/i/162723734428?chn=ps&norover=1&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-117182-37290-0&mkcid=2&itemid=162723734428&targetid=595076263608&device=c&mktype=pla&googleloc=9032898&poi=&campaignid=6470636535&mkgroupid=77538519077&rlsatarget=pla-595076263608&abcId=1140476&merchantid=110365109&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIq-atsNyk5QIVFdVkCh21QgiQEAQYASABEgKLUPD_BwE

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I'm in the process of replacing it now, but kind of stuck. I have the feed dog removed, loosened the clamp screw on it and it drops dpwn just fine.. except it hits the edge of the bobbin assy. I need about 2mm of movement to allow it to completely drop out.  I've removed the screws that I THINK should allow the needle rocker frame to slide a little but it's not budging. I'm not comfortable forcing anything until I know it needs to be forced. That part is the pivot pin that the rocker goes on.
I put in a call to Bob and will probably hear from him sooner or later.

If I find it's OK to pry that pin out a tad, I'll be golden.

 

 

[nylonRigging]

4 hours ago, TomG said:

I'm in the process of replacing it now, but kind of stuck. I have the feed dog removed, loosened the clamp screw on it and it drops dpwn just fine.. except it hits the edge of the bobbin assy. I need about 2mm of movement to allow it to completely drop out.  I've removed the screws that I THINK should allow the needle rocker frame to slide a little but it's not budging. I'm not comfortable forcing anything until I know it needs to be forced. That part is the pivot pin that the rocker goes on.
I put in a call to Bob and will probably hear from him sooner or later.

If I find it's OK to pry that pin out a tad, I'll be golden.

 

 

Ya most definitely don't want to muscle and pry to hard till you get a word from someone mechanical current on that model who has done it before . It Eats a lot of downtime hours with your time on this kind of problem caused by a tiny little part like a broken screw .

Things been going real smooth for me last couple years with machine mechanics, I hate to say anything positive in Fear I will bad JuJu Jinx myself . I been threw that broken screw on needle rod before on other machines , and I remember a couple years back I had the tension push pin lever on machine come loose in mid stride, and jam up, and get bent around, all from it's mount screw working loose . I had to remove and reassemble half the working mechanical guts out behind face-plate to even get my fingers to it, was a PIA for sure .
.