Acrylics over oil

[robs456]

Recently I've seen a few posts where folks say they won't oil the leather 'cos they then can't paint it with acrylics, or even finish with acrylics.
Hmm, I've never had a problem adding NFO and then putting a finish on. Right now I use Angelus Matte finish, but also have Resolene and Tan Kote.
Sometimes I oil and then paint with Angelus paints or use the AB with Jacquard, all acrylics. So far no problem.
The workflow most touted here is Oil then Finish, usually with acrylic finishers.
So what gives?
Why won't people paint with acrylics over oil but are happy to finish with them?
Superstitions? Facts?
 

[chuck123wapati]

All I know is in painting , as on a canvas, you cant paint acrylic paint over oil paint it wont adhere well and flakes off.  Never tried it on leather as I figured it would do the same.

[robs456]

On 12/3/2019 at 3:54 PM, chuck123wapati said:

All I know is in painting , as on a canvas, you cant paint acrylic paint over oil paint it wont adhere well and flakes off.  Never tried it on leather as I figured it would do the same.

Yup, that's what I mean. It doesn't really make sense that things like glue or paint adhere to fat/oily surfaces, yet still it works here. 
Will it work long term?
I have some stuff painted with the Cova acrylics that's about eight years old now that's still looking good.
Anyone with more experience than me? 
 

[Arturomex]

I've had some experience with oil/acrylic paints on canvas and as Chuck has said, acrylic over oil doesn't work well at all but I think there might be other things at work with leather. For starters, a gesso treated substrate is a lot different than leather. And it could be that the different types of vehicles used in oil painting might have something to do with acrylic paint not working well over oil paint (think linseed oil, mineral spirits and several types of varnish). As one of the links below points out, it can take a long time for the volatiles to fully evaporate and oil paints also form "tight, water resistant films" (as per Golden). Here are a couple of links relating to the artistic painting side of the question:

http://chromaonline.com/paint_talk/can_you_overpaint_oils_with_acrylics

https://www.goldenpaints.com/technicalinfo/technicalinfo_oil_over_acrylic

Leather is still pretty porous even after it's been oiled. I don't recall ever creating a "tight, water resistant film" on veg tan just using oil.  I've never had a problem applying acrylic finish to oiled leather. I haven't tried it but I think using acrylic paint on top of an acrylic finish like Resolene over oiled leather would work fine. I'll take it for a drive when I get a chance and see what happens.

Regards,

Arturo

[chuck123wapati]

3 minutes ago, Arturomex said:

 

Leather is still pretty porous even after it's been oiled. I don't recall ever creating a "tight, water resistant film" on veg tan just using oil.  I've never had a problem applying acrylic finish to oiled leather. I haven't tried it but I think using acrylic paint on top of an acrylic finish like Resolene over oiled leather would work fine. I'll take it for a drive when I get a chance and see what happens.

Regards,

Arturo

I think this is the key, the acrylic can still permeate the leather a bit and get into the fibers to make a bond. Oil/acrylic painting cant do this as the fibers  are covered first by the acrylic gesso then a layer of oils which wouldn't allow another acrylic paint layer to adhere to any of the original canvas fibers and it wont bond to the oil based paint either.

[fredk]

not forgetting that Neats Foot Oil is not actually an oil. Its a water soluble liquid fat

[robs456]

2 hours ago, fredk said:

Neats Foot Oil is not actually an oil. Its a water soluble liquid fat

Well, I use flax seed or olive oil.
 

Just did a test where I took it one step further and put down some mink oil and then an acrylic finish on top of that. 
It worked but had a fatty feel to it which makes me think the pores in the leather will accommodate both products. The piece was very water resistant but after vigorous rubbing with my thumb until warm 'something' came off. Piece was waterproof still so guessing the mink oil had absorbed into the pores while the acrylic just laid on top. 

[fredk]

On 12/3/2019 at 8:41 AM, robs456 said:

Recently I've seen a few posts where folks say they won't oil the leather 'cos they then can't paint it with acrylics, or even finish with acrylics.
Hmm, I've never had a problem adding NFO and then putting a finish on. Right now I use Angelus Matte finish, but also have Resolene and Tan Kote.
Sometimes I oil and then paint with Angelus paints or use the AB with Jacquard, all acrylics. So far no problem.
The workflow most touted here is Oil then Finish, usually with acrylic finishers.
So what gives?
Why won't people paint with acrylics over oil but are happy to finish with them?
Superstitions? Facts?
 

 

1 hour ago, robs456 said:

Well, I use flax seed or olive oil.
. . . 

?????

[robs456]

8 hours ago, fredk said:

?????

Well the world ain't linear friend.
The long story: I have always used NFO, just a bit to get the leather smooth and pliable again after dyeing etc. And like the mighty bumblebee I've painted and finished over it to no ill effects throughout the years.
Now, checking YT etc I see people like Don Gonzales basically propagating the use of olive oil so I try it out and it works fine. Thing is, besides a few B/W Sheridan style pieces where I used black dye and acrylic finisher (or wax) I didn't paint any projects, hence my post to check the HowWhenWhatnow.

One thing I have noticed using regular oil is that you need to use more to get the same effect as NFO, so wondering if that may have an effect on any acrylics. 

[Grandxotic]

Is acrylic paint do the job of edge paint?