low VOC Leathercolors from Fiebing

[pete]

Well folks- looked like we've been duped. I just got back from Springfield, MO and saw my good friend Kevin(mgr/owner) I asked where all of the "great new eco-products" were. He rolled his eyes, blew out a breath and said "I'm not ordering that stuff at all"

He spoke to the head honcho at Fiebings( apparently a GOOD friend of his) who leveled with him and told him that the stuff is EXACTLY the same dye that they have always sold- ALL THEY DID WAS TO POUR IT INTO NEW, POLITICALLY CORRECT, PRETTY BOTTLES!!! Not a smidgen of chemical change from the old stuff. They just wanted California and others to think that they were making a safer product! To add insult to injury- the NEW products cost more!!!!!!!!

We've been ripped off and I'm not blaming Fiebings (entirely).

Think what you want. I know Kevin- I BELIEVE that he leveled with me and he has NO reason to tell a whopper. He's way to big in product and in reputation in this industry. all I know is that I will order the original dye if I can. It's cheaper and I don't like being scammed culturally, politically, monetarily (that's why I got the hell out of California)

[ClayB]

Well folks- looked like we've been duped. I just got back from Springfield, MO and saw my good friend Kevin(mgr/owner) I asked where all of the "great new eco-products" were. He rolled his eyes, blew out a breath and said "I'm not ordering that stuff at all"

He spoke to the head honcho at Fiebings( apparently a GOOD friend of his) who leveled with him and told him that the stuff is EXACTLY the same dye that they have always sold- ALL THEY DID WAS TO POUR IT INTO NEW, POLITICALLY CORRECT, PRETTY BOTTLES!!! Not a smidgen of chemical change from the old stuff. They just wanted California and others to think that they were making a safer product! To add insult to injury- the NEW products cost more!!!!!!!!

We've been ripped off and I'm not blaming Fiebings (entirely).

Think what you want. I know Kevin- I BELIEVE that he leveled with me and he has NO reason to tell a whopper. He's way to big in product and in reputation in this industry. all I know is that I will order the original dye if I can. It's cheaper and I don't like being scammed culturally, politically, monetarily (that's why I got the hell out of California)

Was he talking Feibing's dyes, or Tandy? All the Fiebings dyes I ever used were alcohol based. Tandy's new eco ones are water based. I don't see how you could pour spirit based dye in a new bottle and make it water based. Maybe some of the acrylic finishes could just be re-labeled but I kinda doubt CA would fall for that. There are also a whole bunch of new colors available that they didn't have before. Not sure who is trying to dupe who, but I am a little skeptical.

[pete]

I was talking about the alcohol dyes- he said that they were as flamable as the old ones

[Guest]

I am no chemist, I want to get that straight up front....but there is a pretty sure fire test for an alcohol based dye.....it goes like this....

1. Open bottle

2. Sniff contents

3. Test is over

I have those small 1.5oz bottles of both the stains and dyes. The dyes have no odor at all. The stains have a bit of an oder but it certainly isn't alcohol.

The biggest surprise to me is that the stains were actually rather thick while the dyes were like water.... interesting.

So much for my super scientific test.

David

[Peter Ellis]

Was he talking about these ?

LEATHERCOLORStm

LEATHERCOLORSâ„¢ is a low VOC leather dye formulation that works as easily and effectively as traditional penetrating leather dyes. By emitting less Volatile Organic Compounds (VOCs) into the air LEATHERCOLORSâ„¢ is better for the environment and complies with CA VOC regulation title 17CCR94507-94517 that limits VOCs in certain consumer products. LEATHERCOLORSâ„¢ is available in 12 vibrant colors that can be used on shoes, boots, saddles and all of your favorite Leathercraft projects.

Available colors: Black, Light Brown, Medium Brown, Dark Brown, Chocolate, Cordovan, Mahogany, Red, Yellow, Green & Royal Blue.

Packaged in 4 ounce plastic bottles.

(copied from Fiebing's web page).

It doesn't speak to whether it's spirit based or not, just releases less into the atmosphere. Couldn't tell from this whether it's still flammable, but that's not the issue that had to be addressed.

They're representing that it complies with the California statute, which it better since they claim it does.

Does the old formula meet the statute ? I couldn't tell you. Is it possible that they've developed a new package that promotes their compliance with the statute, packaged the same old formula (because it did meet the statute) in the new package and are now charging extra for a label that says it complies ? Sure.

I've got my doubts, but it wouldn't be the first time a package was changed to reflect not a change in the product but a change in the product's marketing....

[CitizenKate]

Which products is Kevin comparing to the Eco-Flo products?

Kate

[Blake]

Was he talking about these ?

LEATHERCOLORStm

LEATHERCOLORSâ„¢ is a low VOC leather dye formulation that works as easily and effectively as traditional penetrating leather dyes. By emitting less Volatile Organic Compounds (VOCs) into the air LEATHERCOLORSâ„¢ is better for the environment and complies with CA VOC regulation title 17CCR94507-94517 that limits VOCs in certain consumer products. LEATHERCOLORSâ„¢ is available in 12 vibrant colors that can be used on shoes, boots, saddles and all of your favorite Leathercraft projects.

Available colors: Black, Light Brown, Medium Brown, Dark Brown, Chocolate, Cordovan, Mahogany, Red, Yellow, Green & Royal Blue.

Packaged in 4 ounce plastic bottles.

(copied from Fiebing's web page).

I just recieved my first bottles of the low VOC Leathercolors from Fiebing.

I actually like them better and there is a difference.I'm not a chemist either but the dyes are pretty user friendly and have a lower odor. They thin readily with alcohol and seem to have less rub off after drying.The leather doesn't seem to have that dried out look and feel characteristic of the old dyes but then again I have only done limited testing.

I would think that the claims would be real about meeting the Calif. regulations as the fines would be Tremendous if there is any deception in advertising or any attempt to avoid compliance.

My $.02 worth

Blake

[Regis]

Pete,

I expect Kevin will spend all day Monday, Tuesday,,, explaining this to folks rather than selling/helping on orders.

[abn]

Pete,

I don't have any experience with Fiebing's Leathercolors, but I've been working with Tandy's Eco-Flo line for several months now. I can assure you the Eco-Flo products are water-based (and thus, more environmentally friendly). They exhibit no alcohol odor, they thin and clean up with water, and they're water-sensitive, even when dry. I like the Eco-Flo line a lot better than the old spirit dyes. I can understand taking Kevin's advice under consideration, but ultimately, I think you should buy a bottle and try it out for yourself to see if it works for you.

Regards, -Alex

[The Major]

Before everyone lights up the torches and gathers a mob, please consider this.

California, passed laws banning the sale of product sold in containers not made of recycled materials.

I had to deal with this issue at my company for some products which was already "eco-friendly" but the container was not made of recycled material.

It may not have to do anything with the product itself, but it's container.

Also a low VOC product does not have to be non-flammable. to be considered low voc.

Finally, the term non-flammable also does not mean it is truly non-flammable. That is a myth.

[blinddog]

Was he talking Feibing's dyes, or Tandy?

All of the LF/Tandy dyes and finishes are manufactured and packaged by Feibing's now.

[outcast]

True about Tandys spirit dyes being made by Feibings. Same stuff poured into tandy bottles. Buy the Tandy packaged spirit dye cheaper than the Feibings packaged spirit dye. Same spirit dye.

outcast

[pete]

thank you- I knew I wasn't crazy.

PS_ the "guy" Kevin was refering to is the head chemist at Fiebings.

[Don101]

You do realise that there is oder free thiners and spirits so it could be possible.. i do oil painting and use bob ross oder free thiners the hazards are still the same but you just dont smell it, Don

[abn]

Guys, just order a bottle and give it a try. I don't think it's necessarily fair to express an opinion on a product you've never tried.

Eco-Flo products are not a scam. They are water-based and they are environmentally friendly. They may not be for everyone, but I've tried them and I like 'em.

[hiloboy]

well the thing that sold me on Eco-Flo was that it can be shipped by air because its water based..a lot of the other dyes and finishes can only ship ground or trucking..and for me that means about 1 1/2 mouths to get here..

[Rayban]

I always have liked the PRO DYE line that Tandy used to sell. I have just finished off a couple projects using that water-based ECO-FLO and I was not happy at all with the results. I apllied it the same as I always have and it left some splotchy spots that looks like the leather had been stained...I always got a good even coverage with the PRO-DYE stuff.

So can anyone tell me where I can still get this PRO-DYE stuff or a good equivalent?

Thanks.

P.S. I liked the smell of it too. a lot more than this watered-down stuff.