Where is the money in leatherwork?

[Daggrim]

Gunter, I'm sorry, I didn't mean to reply to your post. It was meant for the person just above your post. And it was an unnecessarily harsh post, anyway. If I'm wrong to be skeptical of 99centtaco's post, I can eat crow...I know how to do that.

Doug

Doug

doug,

I had no meaning to be mean, but where I live, in europe, there is no real market for just leatherwork. I know the thing in some countries is different.

Sorry if I madeyou mad.

Gunter

[99centtaco]

Doug, its ok. I know it does seem crazy that I would make that much in a year after only 3 years of doing this.

I started out doing costumes for guys that dress up as Star Wars characters. I belong to several forums and each forum has 1000's of members. I noticed alot of members doing half-@ss jobs in leather working. I'm not a pro but I knew I could do better.

Once people started to see my work I got orders pouring in. Not just Star Wars but other movie and gaming costumes as well.

Not sure what kind of proof you would have liked to see.... Wanna see my tax returns? hehe

Don't worry I didn't take it personally. When someone doubts my income like that, it makes me feel pretty good.

[Denise]

Doug and Gunter,

I think the answer here is "niche market", one that doesn't have a lot of competition from other high quality makers (you have to compete on quality, not price. That war you will always lose.) and one where you have the knowledge to make things to the level of quality and function expected by the people who are part of that niche. I think of Suze and her dollhouse items, or HorseHairBraider with her model horse gear and Bruce Johnson with his rope cans. For us, Rod built his first saddle tree in early 1996. By the end of 1998 I quit working out and got to stay home and work in the business with him. Less than three years and this business has fully supported us ever since. It IS possible. The custom saddle making world is a small one and people talk to each other. I assume the same is true of Star Was reenactors, doll house and model horse collectors, ropers, and probably people who want authentic leather helmets. Your Hermann the German show obviously hit the niche. The helmets you sold there are probably still getting your name known in around that circle. Now to find others shows of that nature.

Many of my sales have come from taking the time to just talk with people. Y'gotta listen and ask questions more than you talk.

Good statement. Finding out what people want, ideas they have and even things they don't like or would change in your product is invaluable. Some people just want to make what they want to make the way they want to make it and then complain when it doesn't sell. Customers have lots of good suggestions and ideas, and barring compromise on function or safety, incorporating their input into a specific item or even your whole line if the idea is good enough will often increase your sales and even the quality of your items.

[8thsinner]

Struck another deal today.

Walking past a local craft shop, I decided to stop in and ask if I can offer them cheaper lace supplies.

I went in because I know the stuff they get they charge too much for, so I assumed they were either greedy with their own mark up or didn't have a good supplier.

They said they would be interested if I could beat a certain price.

Well I went home and did some rough minimum calculations and worked out I could provide for 50% (charging them 90% of what they stated) of what they told me they were buying in for, So I took in a sample of stuff, that was cut, dampened stretched by hand as i ran it through my hands whilst saddle soaping and briefly burnished to remove excess soap, which actually polished it very very well.

And Although I took the stuff from a rather expensive hide that required thinning could still make a profit on using plates of lace.

Taking a whole lace with a solid 4foot circle I should be able to increase productivity by 30%.

Anyway, Compared to the stuff they had in stock, the boss took one look at it and said order a few rolls.

Yay.

If they like it so much and want it so bad, it's encouraged me also to go round local show shops and other craft shops asking the same.

Enough regular orders will cover my costs in this and constantly provide me with lace to use for my own projects. And also benefits me as being a customer that leather hide providers will perhaps look more favourably towards.

Another thing, I am only using a lace maker and a hand made leather thinner cutter.

Ah, yes that S word for cutting the back of leather I have for weeks been forgeting the terminology, Anyone else get this???

[99centtaco]

Just an example,

I have three runs going on right now in 3 different forums..

One is called The dented Helmet. Where we like to recreate the costume for Boba Fett. A Star Wars character.

A boba fett costume done right with the best makers can have a total cost of around $5000 and up.

I know because my own came near that cost.

I do leather belts and and slings, others have tried to come in and be makers as well but everyone seems to wait for me to do more.

I started this run about mid Oct this past month. Here is a screen cap of the thread.

http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm183/99centtaco/Untitled-2copy.jpg

My list shows 16 members paid. I try to keep a low cost for these guys so I charged $100 this round. Normally I do them for $150 but I was feeling good....hehe

At 16 orders that equals $1600.00

On my other two forums I am doing pouches and harnesses.. Those are around the same. So if you add up all three forums I have pulled in around $4600 since October. Its not always that big every month but thats how I get up to doing about $30,000 a year. I also do craftshows in my city.

If your trying to make some money, I would hit costume forums such as Lord of the Rings, or Indian Jones. Costumes where leather is huge. I have not even tapped into those forums yet. I have only browsed around. I thought about getting in there but don't have the time. I'm only one guy. Just an FYI.

Edited November 11, 2009 by 99centtaco

[JLSleather]

Someone mentioned not charging enough. I know when I was in full swing, most of the people I talked to already knew it wasn't going to be cheap (I had good "word of mouth", so they knew the quality would be good). But, you can't get them all. I find that just like crossing the street, it's the one you DON'T see coming that gets you.

I lost a good sale (high volume, with good per piece price) by bidding too LOW. Later found out that the "customer" hired someone else because she figured that the most expensive one MUST be the best one. I offered better craftsmanship - on better materials - in the same time frame - and she personally knew some of the people who referred me.

On the other side ...

Remodeling the house, I asked my buddy about his job at Menards. How can they sell me a board for $.02 LESS than what they paid and make money (John Menard had just hit the 10-richest-in-the-country list). If I spend $8000 on new materials, and 1000 guys do the same this month, Menards loses $.02 THOUSANDS of times. But TENS OF THOUSANDS is in short-term CD's the whole time I'm building, and by the time I'm done John has made money. Then Stanley gives him some MORE for agreeing to NOT sell Makita tools (?) where all us boys are coming to buy stuff... you get the idea.

If this is unclear, here's one more... Al passed on a few years back, but the Stohlman's STILL get paid when one of us buys a craft book...

[hivemind]

Another thing to remember is that, given the same item, you're better off selling one for $100 than you are selling three for $30 each. I used to do a lot of work for LARPers and faire-types, and I used to work cheap, and sometimes I had enough work that I was feeling stressed a bit (I have a full-time day job), and was tearing through materials, and had little to show for it. I had no time to make anything for myself, and it wasn't fun anymore. For a couple years, I pretty much stopped making anything for anyone, except for a couple close friends who came over and brought beer.

Skip forward to a few years ago, and I decided I was willing to start doing some leatherwork for people again - but this time I about tripled my prices. A belt I would have charged someone $15 or $20 for before I now charge $50 or $60 for. A belt pouch I used to get $20 for now I get $50. And the orders are still rolling in regularly, but the volume is less and my profit is more.

[ARTISANe]

All the above replies, very revealing in themselves, point to a major problem in global economics and what I call 'the corruption of craft'. In order to make money, you have to produce cheap rubbish, sell it in volume, and it should have novelty value. Of course this is antithetical to the arts and crafts movement, but that is the world that we live in--it is presumed, in most training courses, that what we do here in the West is design things, we don't make them, that is done by other people (presumably from the East). So, as is often the case, self-taught artisan crafts people have an uphill battle to find a niche, which is usually the very high end luxury goods market, or the very low end rubbish novelty market. In other words, the heart and soul has been ripped out of craftsmanship by the masters of globalisation.

There is a third way however, and it is called ethical consumerism. With more people aware that cheapest is not best, because of the effect on the local economy and the global environment, this is something which can be made to work in our favor. The criteria for ethical production starts with you: a skilled crafts person brings value into the community that you live and work in. Then, it moves on to the materials you use. Ethical leather working means that you source your hides from as local a tannery as possible which vegetable tans its hides (thus avoiding toxic waste, needless transportation costs, and producing a much longer wearing, responsive and hypoallergenic raw material). The methods of workmanship you use are also important. It takes much more time to hand stitch an item using the time honored saddle stitch method, but it's strength and durability are unbeatable. So using traditional methods, you are creating products for life, not for land-fill. Finally, you will be keeping alive a tradition that the bankers and asset strippers have nearly managed to wipe out, so you are working for a cause, not just for money.

The next time someone says to you "But I can get that much cheaper at WalMart", just tell them where such products are sourced and how they are made and what that does to the local economy. Almost all leather 'fashion' goods, even many luxury brands, sold by chain retailers are made in Asia with cheap leather, most likely sourced from Brazilian cattle (promoting deforestation) and almost definately chemically tanned. It will be production line made using copious amounts of rubber cement, so that any stitching is purely decorative. And who makes money from its sale?: global brands and retail companies are almost all owned by private equity funds, which are based in tax havens, so all the profit is leaking out of the community, indeed, out of the country, because of the lost tax revenue. It is certainly not going to the poor third-world factory workers, and precious little to the likes of the WalMart employees.

This is indeed an interesting topic, and somehow manages to hit the nail on the head of what it means to be a crafts person today. It also strikes at the heart of what is wrong with a global economic system which sees only short-term gain and relies on the exploitation of cheap foreign labor and insatiable western throw-away consumerism. Perhaps my contribution will provoke some more thoughts, if not reactions! But this is not extremism folks! This is reality, and by sticking together we can be part of the solution, because the heart and soul of any community is skilled craftmanship.

Jim Hornby

[jbird]

All the above replies, very revealing in themselves, point to a major problem in global economics and what I call 'the corruption of craft'. In order to make money, you have to produce cheap rubbish, sell it in volume, and it should have novelty value. Of course this is antithetical to the arts and crafts movement, but that is the world that we live in--it is presumed, in most training courses, that what we do here in the West is design things, we don't make them, that is done by other people (presumably from the East). So, as is often the case, self-taught artisan crafts people have an uphill battle to find a niche, which is usually the very high end luxury goods market, or the very low end rubbish novelty market. In other words, the heart and soul has been ripped out of craftsmanship by the masters of globalisation.

There is a third way however, and it is called ethical consumerism. With more people aware that cheapest is not best, because of the effect on the local economy and the global environment, this is something which can be made to work in our favor. The criteria for ethical production starts with you: a skilled crafts person brings value into the community that you live and work in. Then, it moves on to the materials you use. Ethical leather working means that you source your hides from as local a tannery as possible which vegetable tans its hides (thus avoiding toxic waste, needless transportation costs, and producing a much longer wearing, responsive and hypoallergenic raw material). The methods of workmanship you use are also important. It takes much more time to hand stitch an item using the time honored saddle stitch method, but it's strength and durability are unbeatable. So using traditional methods, you are creating products for life, not for land-fill. Finally, you will be keeping alive a tradition that the bankers and asset strippers have nearly managed to wipe out, so you are working for a cause, not just for money.

The next time someone says to you "But I can get that much cheaper at WalMart", just tell them where such products are sourced and how they are made and what that does to the local economy. Almost all leather 'fashion' goods, even many luxury brands, sold by chain retailers are made in Asia with cheap leather, most likely sourced from Brazilian cattle (promoting deforestation) and almost definately chemically tanned. It will be production line made using copious amounts of rubber cement, so that any stitching is purely decorative. And who makes money from its sale?: global brands and retail companies are almost all owned by private equity funds, which are based in tax havens, so all the profit is leaking out of the community, indeed, out of the country, because of the lost tax revenue. It is certainly not going to the poor third-world factory workers, and precious little to the likes of the WalMart employees.

This is indeed an interesting topic, and somehow manages to hit the nail on the head of what it means to be a crafts person today. It also strikes at the heart of what is wrong with a global economic system which sees only short-term gain and relies on the exploitation of cheap foreign labor and insatiable western throw-away consumerism. Perhaps my contribution will provoke some more thoughts, if not reactions! But this is not extremism folks! This is reality, and by sticking together we can be part of the solution, because the heart and soul of any community is skilled craftmanship.

Jim Hornby

I could not be more happy and pleased with your post Amen.

For years I have said people are getting taken by Wall Mart and its cohorts, You buy cheap and then it breaks or it wears out then you go back for more, come again if you bought things made with skill and quality it would last and you would save money a lot of money.

I have been crying about this for years "WE ARE GETTING TAKEN" by cheap goods, bad ethics and foreign Labor.

More good old qaulity with skilled hands is what we need Folks.

Josh

[MMArmoury]

I feel now is a good time to "bump" this thread and keep it going. To return to the original poster's question, I am one who is trying to make a living (part time) with the craft. I am so far having my best year ever in sales and income doing it, but that is after ten years of slogging through the muck of making just "hobby" money, and also what I mean by best year is finally moving up from a few hundred bucks a year into the low thousands. But now it is finally contributing a noticeable amount in my overall income (tiny as it is) and now I am gearing up for my next major genre shift by going into "Ren Faire" stuff (gotta keep the business moving into new territory or it will just die out, too few of my regular Revolutionary War customers left alive).

By coincidence I just spent a few weekends poking around a local Ren Faire doing research, seeing what others are making and selling for leather goods and trying to figure out the best new angle for myself to start off with. And a lot of what has already been said here is so true, I spent some good time listening to these merchants as they were eager to have a fellow craftsman listen to their woes. The biggest complaint is that, yes, the public just does not understand the amount of labor that goes into a product. And one thing I noticed about virtually all the "Ren Faire" level of leather goods was that most had an abundance of quick press snap rivets to hold everything in place, almost no hand stitching to be found among any of the merchants. And half of them never bother to do any edge finishing at all. I built up my business doing all my leather hand stitched with waxed linen thread and finished edges, and I advertise my products as better researched and better constructed.

I understand that these guys are trying to cut corners on time by going with press rivets and no edging, but they are also succoming to that "Wal-Mart" fever. They are charging $30 for belts that I can do myself at the same price with hand stitching, and I have the advantage that I do stitching demos all the time and pull in customers just by being "different". If I add custom stenciling I can charge a lot more than the guys with the "Tandy-stamped" belts. What was said a few posts back is true; better to make one thing and sell it for $100 than make three and sell for $33 each, you just have to know how to pitch your product to the masses. My demos are a hit wherever I go, yet not one leather merchant bothered doing any demos either weekend at this Faire, despite one of them even being scheduled in the Faire brochure as doing demos both weekends! Lost opportunity to pull in customers! Not that I am criticizing their products, there is a market even for the plastic lined leather mugs, but soon there will also be a market for my pitch-lined flasks. The more the merrier, but to survive in a craft business takes some "craftiness" and finding your niche. Otherwise you are going to get pretty tired pulling the arm on your rivet press machine as you make more and more stuff yet you wonder why you can't turn a profit.

And lastly, one of the guys told me a story about a craftsman who makes custom cowboy boots. One set he had on hand went for $8K, and he made another for a Hollywood star for $30K. So much for Wal-Mart Fever.

My webpage with a short video of my demos: www.freewebs.com/mmarmoury

[Penden]

couple things I wanted to add -

When we do shows and my husband is making stuff right there, people love that. When I see stuff like that it draws me in, too. Makes me feel like the crafter knows what they are doing. And on that note, holding a conversation with a customer and actually knowing about their hobby/whatever is great for that same reason. Know what your customers need and want when it comes to your product.

Also, customization and uniqueness. I have gotten a lot more interest in my work when I let people know that I will customize their work. This is something that walmart just cannot duplicate. Of course the customer is not always right, but don't take for granted the amount of customization you can do easily that might impress your customers. I've had people order from me after learning that I will do it in the color that they want. To me that is "duh!" but to them that is being flexible and caring about what they want.

Pricing. Whenever I add a new product I do a lot of research on what other people are charging, and if possible I only count products that are also handcrafted like mine. I might offer a discount to the first couple of customers who will try out a new product, but beyond that I do not go below what other people are selling for a similar item. If you charge too little, it will cause people to undervalue the work and either go somewhere else or expect all your items to be too cheap and to be ready right away. If the $ is too much for them even after you talk your work up, that is just too bad. There is a certain point where the time and effort put into it can't be undervalued. Either you need to be patient and wait for the right customer, or you need to find another way to do that item better and more efficiently, or you are selling the wrong kind of item or bad design. The only exception might be if the item goes with another item. Selling a set of something can make you more money in the long run when you can add $20 to the set for an item that takes you 20 minutes and $5 of material. Then you start making your $ for the time and effort spent on the large item that you can't seem to sell by itself.

[8thsinner]

After doing our first stall the other day I have a few more insights which I am going to take to the next stall on saturday ( a movement festival we were invited to after another stall holder there saw our work )

Raised platform, standing behind a table 3foot high looks wierd, but stick a cardboard box on one end of the table raising it another foot gives you a better look. (not like your lazing around.

Raising and displaying pieces...a few other stalls had raised items which look more presentable, this time we are going with about 30 coke bottle tops, cut like an inch in thickness under our display cloth to raise the items. Hopefully this will be more presentable on two fronts, both supporting recycling and highlighting.

We never had a free catologue notice, so people weren't happy all the time to just take one...Were changing that.

In light of some of the above tips, we will also be braiding at the stall and promoting the custom thing more....

Good bump.

[Shadowsbane]

couple things I wanted to add -

When we do shows and my husband is making stuff right there, people love that. When I see stuff like that it draws me in, too. Makes me feel like the crafter knows what they are doing. And on that note, holding a conversation with a customer and actually knowing about their hobby/whatever is great for that same reason. Know what your customers need and want when it comes to your product.

Also, customization and uniqueness. I have gotten a lot more interest in my work when I let people know that I will customize their work. This is something that walmart just cannot duplicate. Of course the customer is not always right, but don't take for granted the amount of customization you can do easily that might impress your customers. I've had people order from me after learning that I will do it in the color that they want. To me that is "duh!" but to them that is being flexible and caring about what they want.

Pricing. Whenever I add a new product I do a lot of research on what other people are charging, and if possible I only count products that are also handcrafted like mine. I might offer a discount to the first couple of customers who will try out a new product, but beyond that I do not go below what other people are selling for a similar item. If you charge too little, it will cause people to undervalue the work and either go somewhere else or expect all your items to be too cheap and to be ready right away. If the $ is too much for them even after you talk your work up, that is just too bad. There is a certain point where the time and effort put into it can't be undervalued. Either you need to be patient and wait for the right customer, or you need to find another way to do that item better and more efficiently, or you are selling the wrong kind of item or bad design. The only exception might be if the item goes with another item. Selling a set of something can make you more money in the long run when you can add $20 to the set for an item that takes you 20 minutes and $5 of material. Then you start making your $ for the time and effort spent on the large item that you can't seem to sell by itself.

Penden is right, we did get a much larger number of people stop by and take cards just from watching me sew up a holster, and a flask.

Hardest part of us currently is just getting the name out, and paying the bills while we are doing so. Personalized service will go a very long way. I know I was and still am impressed with my order from K-man, and that was several years ago now. Why? Because he did what he said he would., and was upfront and honest.

We are currently still trying to find our niche, it is slow going, and frustrating, but we never had any ideas about it being a walk in the park.

[CDragonworks]

I find that when people have money to spend they tend to spend it if the item is unusual or unique. Price is a minor matter at say a Renaissance faire if they can try it on and handle it... buying off the net they don't have the chance to play with it first and will spend less! Working for one of the booths I was designing and sewing for I sold 600-800 leather outfits and the people did not blink. But the same outfit online would not sell for as much... Once an end user puts it on you have a great chance of them buying.... So if you are going to sell animal goods selling from a booth at a dog or cat show would be prime space! If I am selling Jerkins,bodices and pouches...I need to be at a Ren Faire or Con! Cat

[Bearns]

I'm glad this thread is here because it is just what I needed to read today. I've been pulling teeth dragging my feet putting off finishing a gun belt and holster set ever since the wife of the man who asked me to make it wrote "will you need compensated for making his holster..." as a facebook comment. Compensated? Why no, of course not... I just love going in the hole on supplies and spending countless hours making gifts for everyone I've ever met. NO, I did not write that... I just ignored it, waited a few days and then emailed a lengthly apology for taking so long detailing out some of the time consuming processes, like hand stitching, etc. I just have a bad feeling about this all around. When he asked me to make the holster, I told him that I did not know how and he said, "wanna learn?" And he said he would pay me for my work. So okay... I'll give it a go, but let's see how it turns out first before setting a price because with it being a first holster, not sure how it will turn out... I'd let him know what the cost of supplies were and he could add what he thinks the labor is worth based on the quality of the finished product, discuss the price when it's done and he can touch it, see the quality and/or obvious flaws. He gave me an old holster to measure to make the pattern and the artistic freedom to tool it anyway I want. (I blog about the making of this holster set at http://artbelts.blogspot.com if you're curious.) I have a feeling the true price of this leatherwork will cost a friendship as his wife seems to think I should work for free, that there is no good way out of it. Even if I just say thank you, chalk it up to a learning experience that now I know that one should always guote at least a ballpark price from the get go, I will feel like they don't value me or my work if the price is too low.

[tat2]

I make my real money is custom work and advertising my higher end belts to suit wearing people. I find a lot of people email " What is your best price." During slow times I will mark something down But other wise during your email or call you are explaing the wonderful product they are looking and in a nice way convince them this is something they need. Customer service is key with customers and suggested up sell, is key too. I also started to offer services to other businesses, embossing logos on their products. strap cutting services and recently began to make an effort to get some of our products in retail stores. It think the trick is to find a product no one makes (HARD!!) and find your clientle to buy it.

Custom work I fins fetched a decent amount of money and the customer is prepared to spemd the money as they want a one of a kind product.

We make an exclusive line of impact weapons so our customer come looking for me.

[JRodz]

I read this thread today and it has some great insight and answers. I usually lurk around the forums but this is only the second time I post. That being said, the information and help I have gained from this site has been such that I have become a contributing member. I felt the least I could do is give back a little.

I learned a long time ago while working construction for my uncle's company that you never discount your labor, you are worth it.. aren't you? Consequently, I have started and sold several profitable businesses over the years where I was never the cheapest, the most expensive, or the flashiest but I was the one that stood behind everything that I have done. I was called back to fix a loose tile after 8 years, I did so with urgency and a smile.

I started leatherwork as a hobby and was quickly pushed into business because friends had needs and needed someone they culd trust to do it for them. I ride about 40,000 miles a year and ride with some of the largest motorcycle clubs in the western states. I appreciate the comments about a niche market and the value of custom products to the consumer. Unfortunately, I cannot post pictures of most of my work. I have not been granted permission from any of these clubs to post or photograph their products because it contains trademarked slogans, logos, and symbols that are sacred to the clubs. I work full time and am always backed up a 2-3 months, even still I do not make enough to live off. I am also in a fairy tale scenario because I deal with the clubs leaders who in turn sell the goods to the members for fixed prices so I do not need to haggle or wheel and deal. These clubs pay cash up front and pick things up in person or I deliver to them personally.

What's my point, find a niche where you have credibility and where you participate actively and fully. Even then, it is hard to make a living of leather alone.

[JLSleather]

I went to Etsy yesterday and just typed "tooled leather" in the search from the main page. 1100-something listings of some of the most hideous "crafting" you'll ever see.

Of over 1100 listings, I saw about a handful of items that didn't cause a gag reflex. They weren't especially nice, they just didn't make you sick. Then, I didn't view all 1100 .... just maybe a dozen pages, and into some of the "shops" where these were sold. I was surprised to see some of the stuff people will spend their money on.

Guess that's never gonna be my thing. Reading through the "stuff", Etsy recommends talking up your items on facebook, youtube, myspace, yerspace, whatever ... which I don't do, and I'm not going to. Apparently, the concensus is that if you talk about your pathetic, hideous, and often unnecessary item enough then someone will buy it (I've seen spongebob, so there is apparently some truth to this).

One thing they said I agreed with, though ... if you're going to make stuff, it should be a product you like. But then, it's no longer about the money at that point.

[gaelicknife]

Interesting comments...and I respect the accumulated wisdom of so many contributors. I understand the difficulties of "trying to make a living" from fabricating leather items. Being retired....as are quite a few here I suspect....I do not feel the pressure to perform a great deal of marketing chores. I don't remember who's signature had the great quote from Heinlein, but there is quite a bit of wisdom there too! Who the hell wants to make the same thing day after day? You don't have to. Develop a repertoire involving different mediums....steel, wood, synthetics, fabrics, leather... and then learn to combine them for some trully unique objects. Also, don't try so hard to set the world on fire with your work. Make something of high quality....very high quality....and it will sell itself. If the quality isn't appreciated to your audience, then you have the wrong audience. I had a friend several years ago who was an aspiring knife maker. He could not sell enough of his beautiful knives to make ends meet, but when someone suggested a small ad in the Smithsonian magazine things turned completely around for him. He changed his audience. Your audience must have the knowledge to appreciate your work! You cannot sell a beautifully crafted bridle to the dude at the corner convenience store, but the outfit that boards horses may just bite.....or know someone who will. Take it from a geezer....start small, make quality and build slow and you may have something to hand off to your children. In the meantime you will be working for yourself....priceless.

[Myriam]

Just finished reading this thread and my head is spinning! Lots of good information though.

[Bar C Leather]

If you want to spend your time as a leatherworker, i.e. turn your hobby into a business, just so you can do leather work, go to work for someone else. You will spend a lot of your time as bookkeeper, marketing exec, purchasing agent, shipping clerk, customer service rep, psychologist, quality control supervisor, chief engineer.... I think you need to by slightly skitzophrenic to run a small business. If you can handle these additional pressures, and have the drive to be good at what you do, go for it.

OMG... couldn't have said it better! Thank you for a good, honest laugh of truth!

I think confidence and a business plan are extremely important. Of course marketing yourself is crucial too. Unfortunately I don't have the liberty of putting 100% into my leather business as I home school our children, run the office end of my husband's business and we also have a small cow-calf operation. The plans and ideas I have developed over the years are overflowing from notepads, files and my mind but you've really got to have the time devoted because of that "half + half +half" stuff. Totally true. I run my business part time and I'm NON STOP working in my mind.

I've seen a guy who appears successful making $500 saddles out of a shop at his home in (literally) the middle of nowhere, FL. No website, no ebay etc... but he's making a living. I don't know what he puts in those saddles and wouldn't recommend them as it costs me (wholesale) over $700 for quality materials to build a saddle... but he's been at it for many years and EVERYONE in central FL has heard of him and those who are backyard horsemen, swear by that little shop. Of course there's the other end of the spectrum ... just go to the TCAA website (http://tcowboyarts.org/members) if you haven't yet and see people selling western 'art' leather... saddles for $37,000 + Finding the niche is definitely priority and geographic location plays a role. Things that I know I could sell all day in CA don't do well here in FL.

Good luck to you in your choice and God bless.

[Samuel]

This is a good thread. Although new and starting out, I would like to add and reiterate some remarks here.

I work full-time as a federal police officer, and part-time as a private firearms instructor. I make leather and kydex gun holsters and accessories. I would not want to quit being a full-time police officer or part-time firearms instructor to make holsters and acessories full-time. The reason is I believe all three jobs compliment each other. Being a federal police officer lends credibility to my part-time training, and that lends credibility to my holster & accessories making business.

Where I've lived and instructed, there are lots of people who want to take $50 firearm courses. Instead of jumping on the bandwagon, I decided to charge a lot more because I believed there was a group of individuals who felt there was little value in a short cheap class. I found out that more people wanted to take my courses due to my background and because of the smaller classroom size, and more hours. I wasn't competing with any of the other instructors, even though they would call me up and ask, "How are you getting more students than me?" I believe that there are a few groups of people within the firearm community that are willing to spend more money, and are not necessarily influenced by price, even if the economy shifts. Case in point, I see it a lot with cowboy holsters.

I used my teaching opportunity to market and get feedback on my products. I have a classroom portion dedicated to concealment of firearms, and I show my holsters and accessories during this portion. I've been using it for researching and developing my products but students say, "I don't care if you're not selling, I want one. How much?" I've also got requests for other law enforcement that I've became friends with, because they know I've very knowledgeable in concealing firearms.

I've travelled to gun local shows and some really big gun shows. Fortunately for me, most of the holsters are the cheap nylon constructed kind. Something I've noticed is that people get drawn into a demonstration of some kind at gun shows. Case in point, I saw 30+ people drawn in to a booth selling gun cleaning supplies by putting on a simple 5 minute show on how to clean your gun, and half of those people would buy something after the demonstration.

I figure I'm going to set up my booth with my sewing machine (when I get one), would setup a kydex press but with the fumes it's a no-no, and make some holsters. I'll also have a small class on concealment and what to look for in a concealment gear. I'll have someone to model my products and answer questions in case I'm busy sewing. I think I would be the only one with this setup, and would be able to get my name out, product feedback, and be able to sell lots of holsters.

When it comes to making money, I'm starting out with the business mentality. I'm going to sink in around several thousands of dollars for everything, and plan on making that money back with interest in a certain amount of time. I've also factored in paying myself a minimum of what I'm making per hour as a police officer, plus business taxes, insurance, gas, marketing and other costs. This all goes into my bottom line. I'm not going to do this for free, and don't want this to be a hobby because I feel I will probably destroy this hobby going the route I am. I have metrics I have to hit every month, and if I don't see it I'll have to make up for it the next month. With that being said, I'm going to invest a lot of time in researching and developing and not compromise.

I've talked to some really nice holster makers, and I know two of them that do it full-time. They love their job, but feel it's important to ease yourself in. Start small, find a niche, do a great job, follow through, and market your products the most effective way you can (generally through word of mouth). One of these holster makers admitted to me he doesn't make a lot of money, but is making more than when he was a truck driver and can be home with his family more.

The original poster is a dog trainer and I believe this would be an excellent way to compliment the leather business. You could use each business to promote each other. For instance in your dog training classes, allow students to get 25% off your leather products, and allow people who spend more than $100 to get 50% off your dog training classes. Turn the multiple businesses into a symbiotic relationship.

Edited February 24, 2011 by Samuel

[KAYAK45]

LApat

The answer to your original Question? Wheres the money in leatherwork.?

Raise cows. LOL

[Scott Leger]

Nice Topic , this can be helpful

[mrdabeetle]

LApat

The answer to your original Question? Wheres the money in leatherwork.?

Raise cows. LOL

I was going to say "sell hides".

Seriously, find a niche then as your customer base grows, you can introduce new items, possibly hire part timers to do all the work that you don't like to do. I suggest either getting into re-enactment leathers like renaissance festivals, civil war era, etc. or try fetish "supplies". There is a small demand for leathercrafters in the replica movie props field, but you can't make a living off of it. Unfortunately, having a job doing what I love is still a dream, but it occasionally comes true for a short time when someone who knows the value of handmade products asks me to make something.

I haven't had a steady job since 2003, but leatherwork, costuming, propmaking, graphic design, 3d modeling, fine art, and web design have kept me from becoming homeless.

I suggest finding a wealthy celebrity and become their best friend. Have them tell their friends what you do, and allow them to wear/use your products in movies and tv.