Cowboy CB3200 forward and back Stitch misaligned

[palvim]

Hello All,

I've been reading through a lot of the posts on this forum and it is so informative. Thank you all! It is very helpful to a super newbie like me. 

I'm writing as I just started to get an issue with the front and back stitch being misaligned. As in they don't go in the same hole. It worked fine u til yesterday when I tried to stitch on the fold of a folded belt. I think it might have screwed up something at that point. Now everytime I back stitch, the backstitch goes 2 stitches back i.e. 1 back stitch = 2 forward stitches. Please see the image attached. 

Any idea what went out of alignment or how to fix this? 

Any help is super appreciated! Thank you. 

[palvim]

I also read up on one topic that inside foot and the feed dog should meet each other just when the needle is going down on the feed dog. I see that is not the case on my machine. Is this something that is the problem? 

The image attached is exactly at the point where the feed dog meets the inner foot. 

 

[Wizcrafts]

Did you make an adjustment to the height of the inside foot before this occurred? If not, loosen the big bolt on the crank coming out the back left side and lower the needle to the level of the feed dog, then drop the inside foot to meet it and lock down the bolt. Maybe your bolt loosened itself.

The feed dog should have risen to the top of the throat plate slot when the needle meets it, but should not start moving back at that point. Set this with the stitch lever in the zero motion position to be most accurate.

[palvim]

Thank you wizcraft for replying. Do you mean the opening on the back of the machine? I am a little lost. Do you mean the bolt on this thick metal bar or is it inside the opening somewhere? 

[Wizcrafts]

Wrong end! The crank I am referring to comes out the back near the very left side of the head. It connects to the presser foot cranks inside the left end. When you remove the faceplate you can see these parts. I'm not able to go to my shop so no photos from me at this time.

[Constabulary]

wild guess - is it possible that the machine is just skipping a stitch in reverse? Its very unlikely that the F & R stitch length differ by exactly 50%  (as it seems). Is it possible that it is just a needle / hook timing issue?

[palvim]

48 minutes ago, Constabulary said:

wild guess - is it possible that the machine is just skipping a stitch in reverse? Its very unlikely that the F & R stitch length differ by exactly 50%  (as it seems). Is it possible that it is just a needle / hook timing issue?

Would it randomly miss or consistently miss? On my machine it is consistently doing reverse at twice the length of the forward stitch

[CowboyBob]

4 hours ago, Constabulary said:

wild guess - is it possible that the machine is just skipping a stitch in reverse? Its very unlikely that the F & R stitch length differ by exactly 50%  (as it seems). Is it possible that it is just a needle / hook timing issue?

Yes,I'll agree that's what it looks like to me too.You might try to tighten your foot pressure a turn or two.

[Michiel]

If you turn the machine by hand (slow) you can see if the stitch in reverse is longer or  constabulary is right

(my guess would be you are missing stitches in reverse...)

regards michiel

[palvim]

Here is the video of how I'm trying to do it. I tightened the presser foot tension to at least 3 turns. 

And here is with the bobbin cover off. 

And here is the movement of the feed dog, presser foot and inner foot in relation to each other and the bobbin. 

Appreciate your help very much. Thank you. 

Mano. 

[palvim]

Oh forgot to mention that the machine is doing 1.5 stitches in reverse as compared to two stitches. I have tightened the presser foot. Here is the picture of what I was trying to sew. You can see at the 2 and row from the back where the leather folds, the machine struggled and kept stitching in the same hole. Does this give any pointers? 

[palvim]

23 hours ago, Wizcrafts said:

Wrong end! The crank I am referring to comes out the back near the very left side of the head. It connects to the presser foot cranks inside the left end. When you remove the faceplate you can see these parts. I'm not able to go to my shop so no photos from me at this time.

Is it here somewhere I should adjust something? 

[Wizcrafts]

I circled the crank you adjust to set the height of the inside foot vs the needle.

[palvim]

13 hours ago, Wizcrafts said:

I circled the crank you adjust to set the height of the inside foot vs the needle.

 

Hi Wizcrafts, I'm wondering if what you asked me to try is actually working fine. You see in the 3rd video above, the needle and inside foot meets the feed dog at its highest position. Then it starts to move back. Am I misunderstanding? 

[Wizcrafts]

On 4/9/2020 at 2:16 PM, palvim said:

I also read up on one topic that inside foot and the feed dog should meet each other just when the needle is going down on the feed dog. I see that is not the case on my machine. Is this something that is the problem?

I was responding to the feet not meeting the feed dog with the needle. You asked that on Thursday. I didn't realize you already solved that problem.

[JJN]

On 4/10/2020 at 12:23 PM, palvim said:

Here is the video of how I'm trying to do it. I tightened the presser foot tension to at least 3 turns. 

 

Maybe I am seeing something odd. Not sure. In this video, it looks like the leather is slightly jerking back towards you just as the needle is about to pierce the leather, shortening the stitch when stitching forwards. Maybe someone more knowledgeable can look at this and comment.

[palvim]

2 hours ago, Wizcrafts said:

I was responding to the feet not meeting the feed dog with the needle. You asked that on Thursday. I didn't realize you already solved that problem.

The inside foot touches slightly before the needle touches the feed dog level. Is that correct or does the inside foot and needle has to touch the feed dog level at the same time? And then the feed dog goes back. 

Sorry for asking so many questions. As I don't know what is reference point of perfect movements. Could anyone be so kind and record their feed dog, inside foot and needle movement in relation to each other on the CB3200? 

Thanks a lot! 

1 hour ago, JJN said:

Maybe I am seeing something odd. Not sure. In this video, it looks like the leather is slightly jerking back towards you just as the needle is about to pierce the leather, shortening the stitch when stitching forwards. Maybe someone more knowledgeable can look at this and comment.

It has always jerked a little. Don't know if it is right but it is definitely not new. 

[ohio]

Yes, the leather is being pulled upward in the video when the knot is being formed.  If all the timing is good then i think more foot pressure is needed to hold the leather in place. Or the feet are not touching the leather at all times allowing it to move slightly out of alignment in relation to the other stitches. Just my guess.  

[Wizcrafts]

7 hours ago, palvim said:

The inside foot touches slightly before the needle touches the feed dog level. Is that correct or does the inside foot and needle has to touch the feed dog level at the same time? And then the feed dog goes back. 

I was instructed by my Cowboy dealer that the best setting for most sewing on a 441 clone is to remove any leather, then handwheel the machine until the tip of the needle reaches the feed dog. Then loosen the big bolt on the crank on the back to position the inside foot to make contact with the feed dog. The results should be the best combination of lift between the inner and outer feet, in sync with the vertical motion of the needle. This should also cause the needle to pull out of the leather while the inside foot is still holding it down, preventing skipped stitches from lifting leather at the point of the lockstitch formation. The inner foot delay should also help stabilize the position of the leather so it doesn't move back as the needle ascends.

[palvim]

All right guys I managed to fix it. Had to speak with Frank Brunnet from whom I had purchased the machine. Please see the video on what to do. And in the end I say you need to move. Basically you loosen the screws. Keep your Allen key in one screw, turn the hand wheel 2 minutes (super tiny angle like 2 minutes on a clock) then tighten and check if the front and back stitch goes in the same hole. If not, keep adjusting it in both directions. I didn't have to do much. 

 

Thank you Wizcrafts for the alignment of the needle, feed dog and presser foot instruction. That's what Frank was getting to as well. 

[palvim]

Frank mentioned the jerky motion of leather is because the needle is too small for the thread. It is true I'm running one size smaller as I don't like the big holes :-). So the lockstitch is getting stuck in the tiny hole until the thread is pulled again. Hope that helps.