Which machine - advice

[andreica]

Hi all, I am new here and fairly new to the world of industrials. I would like a little help on what to do choice wise.

I am in need of a machine and on a pretty limited budget. I would mainly do bags and wallets on it.  However, I don't work with leather right now, just vinyl (still fairly a beginner) so I am wondering whether it would be better to buy what I can get that could work for me now and get something else later or buy something I can grow into nicely. Like something that wouldn't be an overkill, too much for my current needs, but could accommodate my fast growing appetites.

My issues is that I am very limited in choices and budget.

Firstly, I have no option of trying out anything. I live too far away from anything so whatever I get will have to be sent to me and it will have to be just based on a video or something.

Buying a new compound feed is way out of my budget. Waay out.

What I might be able to get is a regular walking foot (top and bottom feed) one of the juki clones, new - as I said, to work for me at this moment (and look into something better later on if I am able to) or buy a used compound, an old(er) one.

My options here, within a reasonable distance (still would have to be sent to.me, just not that far) would.be a pfaff 335 or 545 mainly. Not sure on exact models but there are several and I don't want to ask for details until I  able to buy (it'll be in a couple months time). These models are usually often seen in ads in the (wider) area.

I have my heart set on a Juki lu 563 (a few others as well but that one is on top of the list) however those I can only find online (ebay and stuff), with warranty and whatnot, but it would mean shipping to my country, shipping pretty far and that worries me. 

Also to note, where I live there are no options of having it serviced if something goes wrong. There is probably one guy that travels once or twice a year around the south of the country and that is my only bet if I need repairs unless it is like dead or something and I'd need to spend an arm and a leg on shipping to and from where it can be looked at.

So I'd like to get something reliable. 

It would likely be possible to get a professional to look at it while.buying and fix whatever needs fixing right away amd put in a servo motor, but from there on out, I'm on my own.

I want it to be happy with t92 thread, that is my only... condition. I mean not.just be able to work with it but be happy with it lol

Also wondering how comfortable would a 335 be as a main machine (not just a "specialized one") with something.like an extension table to make it a flatbed. Does it work well full time or is it not really great for a main machine.

Thank you all for reading and for your time. 

Edited April 16, 2020 by andreica
Adding info

[bikermutt07]

If you could find a used consew 206rb1, 2, or 3 that should take care of your needs. 92 thread is in the sweet spot and the Japanese built ones are like tanks. 

I'm not an expert on these by any means.

[Silverd]

Love it...I'm thinking you got away easy making your belt for only $3k!

 

Silverd

 

[dikman]

I don't think a 335 would be the best choice if you're restricted to one machine. Most of them are used as binders, and while they can be changed to "normal" feet the feed dog is not used for feeding, so it's not a compound feed machine. The stitch length is also relatively short.

[bikermutt07]

  On 4/17/2020 at 9:39 PM, Silverd said:

Love it...I'm thinking you got away easy making your belt for only $3k!

 

Silverd

 

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thanks

[Constabulary]

dikman - the 335 I have seen have 5mm stitch length - not too bad I´d say. And they are actually compound feed or to be more precise unison feed / triple feed (top, drop & needle feed). The only difference is that the feed dog is not oscillating instead it just goes back and forth but from what I have experienced & read it does not make a big difference when a feed dog is not oscillating on a triple feed machine. But experiences can be different of course.

[dikman]

I probably should have clarified the stitch length, I guess. We're both right. The stitch length varies a bit, depending on the sub-class, and mine is limited to 4mm. There's no easy way of getting it any longer. As for the feed dog, it just seems to me that a none-elliptical travel smooth dog is not going to give much assistance to  the material movement - but you could be right, and I could be wrong, if so I'm happy to learn something.

But I still don't think it's the right machine for someone who will only have one (which is why many of us have more than one.....).

[Constabulary]

  On 4/18/2020 at 6:27 AM, dikman said:

(which is why many of us have more than one.....).

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heard of that - crazy people

[andreica]

Thank you all for your advice. I've started accumulating machines so I get you (do I ever) but my budget restricts me from doing the same with industrials. My country has a much lower standard than the US or a lot of other countries so the amound needed to buy a serious machine is well, a lot. For a lot of people even completely unreachable.

 

As for the 335 machines I've seen, one has a regular foot and was used as such, the other is a binding machine, but costs more and doesn't really interest me.

 

What about the shipping issue, is that a big concern? Since the two mentioned (335 and 545) are basically all that I can get in my price range with tripple feed around here.

And the 545?

I will look into the Consew, thank you. In my parts of Europe that is not a name that you run into easily, so even if I do find one it would mean shipping from far away.

[dikman]

Andreica, given what you've just said then the 335 (not the binder) would be a reasonable machine but I think the 545 would be a better option. I'm not familiar with it but it appears to have a larger bobbin and has higher lift under the feet. Either machine should handle #92 thread fine, and probably up to #138.

As for shipping, if you can buy local and pickup yourself it's always preferable. Unless the person arranging the shipping knows what they're doing then the risk of damage can be high. Industrial machines are heavy and need to be well packed otherwise things get broken!

[andreica]

  On 4/18/2020 at 11:56 AM, dikman said:

Andreica, given what you've just said then the 335 (not the binder) would be a reasonable machine but I think the 545 would be a better option. I'm not familiar with it but it appears to have a larger bobbin and has higher lift under the feet. Either machine should handle #92 thread fine, and probably up to #138.

As for shipping, if you can buy local and pickup yourself it's always preferable. Unless the person arranging the shipping knows what they're doing then the risk of damage can be high. Industrial machines are heavy and need to be well packed otherwise things get broken!

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Thank you very much!

 

(They're all about the Germans around here lol, and the shipping, I figured as much)

[Silverd]

The CB-335 Cowboy clone I own is a good machine that I purchased for sewing small clutches and the like but is not my first go to for anything else.  It is a bit light weight for a lot of work, has limited foot clearance, a short max stitch length and the scuffing style dog is not nearly as effective as an oscillating type.  50mm cylinder arm machines with drop feeds are very expensive  (Juki DSC-245/246) and are rare so the buy in cost of 335s is low but It really is more of a specialty machine than a general purpose in my opinion.  I do agree however,  that if only one machine, a cylinder arm is a great choice.  Uwe, makes after market flat bed attachments for many cylinder models and you might consider getting one.   I think his tables are the best on the market and own two of them. The attachment gives you flat bed practicality with cylinder versatility for about a hundred bucks.

Good luck!

Silverd.  

[Silverd]

  On 4/16/2020 at 9:28 PM, andreica said:

Hi all, I am new here and fairly new to the world of industrials. I would like a little help on what to do choice wise.

I am in need of a machine and on a pretty limited budget. I would mainly do bags and wallets on it.  However, I don't work with leather right now, just vinyl (still fairly a beginner) so I am wondering whether it would be better to buy what I can get that could work for me now and get something else later or buy something I can grow into nicely. Like something that wouldn't be an overkill, too much for my current needs, but could accommodate my fast growing appetites.

My issues is that I am very limited in choices and budget.

Firstly, I have no option of trying out anything. I live too far away from anything so whatever I get will have to be sent to me and it will have to be just based on a video or something.

Buying a new compound feed is way out of my budget. Waay out.

What I might be able to get is a regular walking foot (top and bottom feed) one of the juki clones, new - as I said, to work for me at this moment (and look into something better later on if I am able to) or buy a used compound, an old(er) one.

My options here, within a reasonable distance (still would have to be sent to.me, just not that far) would.be a pfaff 335 or 545 mainly. Not sure on exact models but there are several and I don't want to ask for details until I  able to buy (it'll be in a couple months time). These models are usually often seen in ads in the (wider) area.

I have my heart set on a Juki lu 563 (a few others as well but that one is on top of the list) however those I can only find online (ebay and stuff), with warranty and whatnot, but it would mean shipping to my country, shipping pretty far and that worries me. 

Also to note, where I live there are no options of having it serviced if something goes wrong. There is probably one guy that travels once or twice a year around the south of the country and that is my only bet if I need repairs unless it is like dead or something and I'd need to spend an arm and a leg on shipping to and from where it can be looked at.

So I'd like to get something reliable. 

It would likely be possible to get a professional to look at it while.buying and fix whatever needs fixing right away amd put in a servo motor, but from there on out, I'm on my own.

I want it to be happy with t92 thread, that is my only... condition. I mean not.just be able to work with it but be happy with it lol

Also wondering how comfortable would a 335 be as a main machine (not just a "specialized one") with something.like an extension table to make it a flatbed. Does it work well full time or is it not really great for a main machine.

Thank you all for reading and for your time. 

Expand  

If you are stuck on the Pfaff 335 size cylinder arm I would suggest you look at the Techsew 2600 Narrow.  This clone version of the 1 7/8" diameter cylinder arm has true compound drop feed (the feed dog drops down between forward and backwards motion).  The Pfaff 335s do not; they have a "scuff" dog that only oscillates back and forth.  I own a Pfaff clone and although its a good machine,  it lacks an important element of control of material feed.  Pricing is competitive on this machine as well. 

Silverd

[dikman]

Andreica's main problem, Silverd, is that where she's located she doesn't have access to the choice of machines like we have, which is why she's looking at the two Pfaffs, they are convenient to her and the prices are, hopefully, reasonable. Many of the models that we often suggest as a good starting point are simply not available to her.

[Silverd]

Understand.  Thank you.  

Silverd

 

[DanishMan]

I have a PFAFF 331.

While it does not have alternating feet, it has the oscillating feed dog.

One can quickly swap between a normal foot and a roller foot, which makes the machine very

versatile for smaller things.

[Constabulary]

  On 4/26/2020 at 5:54 AM, DanishMan said:

I have a PFAFF 331.

While it does not have alternating feet, it has the oscillating feed dog.

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I would like to see that - can you make a quick video?

 

Andreica - I just found this on the web - machine is located in Slovenia

https://www.netbid.com/Auktionen/Detail-Ueberblick/20606675-Pfaff-335-H3-6-01-900-52-Nähmaschine/

Edited April 26, 2020 by Constabulary

[DanishMan]

I will make a video in a couple of hours.

The 331 has the extra eccentric, that allows for the oscillating movement

[RockyAussie]

Here is a couple of pics of my Pfaff 331 close in on the feed dog. My favourite machine. At about 1minute in on this video you can see it action. https://www.themorningbulletin.com.au/videos/wild-harry/43913/

[Constabulary]

Ouh - interesting! You learn something new everyday - but yet only the 331 (needle feed ) or has anyone seen this on a 335 (triple feed) too. I didn´t but I´m open to "broaden my mind" . Looks like it has a risen throat plate compared with he 335.

Would be nice if someone could show technical details. Wondering how it works...

I see the advantage of the very narrow foot!

Edited April 26, 2020 by Constabulary

[DanishMan]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a-wRn4DO-Nk

I just fine tuned my 331. 

The only thing I am missing, is the hook cap, which is a different size than on the 335.

Any idea, where to buy one of those.

Kind regards

Danishman

[RockyAussie]

  On 4/26/2020 at 7:36 AM, DanishMan said:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a-wRn4DO-Nk

I just fine tuned my 331. 

The only thing I am missing, is the hook cap, which is a different size than on the 335.

Any idea, where to buy one of those.

Kind regards

Danishman

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That would be hard to get I think but you could try Pfaff direct. If you have a 3D printer available I could send you a file for one that I have done in order to have it smaller than the original.

[DanishMan]

Ohh - very nice. I do not have a 3D printer, but it seems nice.

[RockyAussie]

  On 4/26/2020 at 7:27 AM, Constabulary said:

Ouh - interesting! You learn something new everyday - but yet only the 331 (needle feed ) or has anyone seen this on a 335 (triple feed) too. I didn´t but I´m open to "broaden my mind" . Looks like it has a risen throat plate compared with he 335.

Would be nice if someone could show technical details. Wondering how it works...

I see the advantage of the very narrow foot!

Expand  

I have seen in a catologue at some time where the pfaff 335 was available with an oscillating dog foot but it is very difficult to find. From memory they have to have the letter P after say 335-H3-P sort of. The best I can find at the moment is possibly in this pdf  where there is a difference shown on page 21 and 30. https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=7&ved=2ahUKEwjtvbiY4oXpAhVCT30KHcNVATUQFjAGegQIBBAB&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.supsew.com%2Fdownload%2FPfaff%2FPfaff%20335%20H3.pdf&usg=AOvVaw3_CKC405UTEGZCwwcT3jDf

I will try and find the better descriptive one and post it up when I do. Also note that the techsew 2600 cylinder comes with an oscillating dog foot as standard.

https://www.techsew.com/us/techsew-2600-narrow-cylinder-leather-industrial-sewing-machine.html

Note: There is no dog foot tab sticking out the end as there is in the picture below it.

https://www.pfaff-industrial.com/db-downloads/technicaldoc/teilelisten/300/tl_335_06-09_de_en_es_zh/@@download/file/TL_335_06-09.pdf

Page 55 on this one above.

Edited April 26, 2020 by RockyAussie

[andreica]

  On 4/26/2020 at 6:20 AM, Constabulary said:

 

I would like to see that - can you make a quick video?

 

Andreica - I just found this on the web - machine is located in Slovenia

https://www.netbid.com/Auktionen/Detail-Ueberblick/20606675-Pfaff-335-H3-6-01-900-52-Nähmaschine/

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Oh my I am so sorry I completely missed this.

I have checked my settings and now get why I haven't received any notifications and have now set everything up to notify me

Thank you so much for your time and effort! I apologize once again.

I ended up coming across a pfaff 1245 which I recently got so yay me.

I need help with it however, so I made a new topic, hopefully that's okay...

Thank you again to everyone who replied and especially to you Constabulary for taking the time to look for something near me.

I took all the comments into account and decided against the 335 and this one came up so I got it. Now I just need to learn to use it.