Which (used) machine for an Aussie noob?

[Fognozzle]

Hi everyone, noob alert, sorry! 

I want to make some heavy canvas bags with leather trim. The leather will all be hand stitched, but I want to machine sew the canvas, which could be up to 24oz (800gsm) and there may be several layers sandwiched at the seams.

I'm browsing machines on eBay, but of course I have no idea. Ideally I'd like to find something reasonably common and reliable, with good online availability of parts and information. Cheap would be great, but I'm prepared to cough up for the right machine. I'm pretty handy and can make general mechanical and electrical repairs, replace a motor etc.

Are there any obvious contenders I should be looking out for?

[dikman]

Where in Oz are you? Gumtree often has a lot of industrial machines listed, not all of which are reasonably priced!!

Just how thick, in mm, is the thickest seam likely to be? If the bags are heavy duty, what thickness thread are you looking at using?

[Fognozzle]

Thanks dikman. I'm on the NSW/VIC border near Echuca, but I get to Melbourne periodically. Bendigo & Shepparton are both large cities and pretty convenient.

As for seams and threads, I just don't know yet and could use some advice. Based on nothing other than googling I would guess that V138 thread and a #22 needle are realistic? A rough guess puts 24oz canvas at about 0.7mm thick, so 3 layers doubled at the seam would be 4-5mm, tripled  6-7mm?

[Bert51]

Hi  Fognozzle, I'm just down the road a bit from you.

I was making a new peg bag out of two layers of glued canvas and when I went to do the seems I had to change from the Singer 31K47 to to my 132K6 as it was just to think for the little Singer. I don't know if the glue was the problem, but I was struggling to get the seems under the feet of the 31K47.

You will need a machine that has good clearance and a bit of hand wheel weight to get it thru the seems.

Bert.

[Fognozzle]

Thanks Bert. So realistically, am I looking at the heaviest end of the market, with a $2-$3,000 price tag for a good working example? Or is there another path I can take?

[Handstitched]

@Fognozzle hows that ? all Aussies   

Talk about 'great minds think alike'  .  I thought about the 132K6 as well . Never used one, but I know they are a good reliable machine . As for price, you can get them a lot cheaper than $2-3k .

Theres also a Seiko SK-2B , similar to the K6  or a SK- 6 F 

 The 132K6 is on my ' bucket list of machines' , that and a post bed   4 down 2 to go .  ' One Powerball...."  Where they're going to go when I finally get them ?  

HS 

[Bert51]

Your right Handstitched, sews what ever fits under the feet, just like my Adler 105-6, I slowed them to my speed and now I just keep my finger out of the way.

If you want a new machine, yes your looking better then 3K, but if your patient keep your eye on ebay or gumtree, you'll find one at a reasonable price. I drove to Sydney to get my Adler.

Bert.

Edited April 28, 2020 by Bert51

[dikman]

If you're only looking at a max (seam) thickness of 7-8mm then any of the upholstery-class machines should do, they generally have about 10mm under the feet (some will do 12mm) and can usually manage #138/M20 thread. Singer 111/211, Juki 562/563, Consew, Seiko, Pfaff, Adler are all older machines that you might pick up at reasonable prices (well, maybe not Adler so much). Just search for "industrial sewing machines" on gumtree, where you are gives you reasonable access down to Melbourne and the suburbs so you've got a pretty good chance of finding something, just keep looking. If you see something and aren't sure just ask on here.

Buying new is nice but bloody expensive here in Oz, particularly if it's only for occasional/part-time use.

Bert, I reckon you're right about the glue.

Edit: I just had a quick look at gumtree and saw at least 3 132k6's in Vic, one of them is at Echuca (!) but he wants $1750 for it, which I think is a bit on the high side myself. It does have a servo, but servo's are pretty cheap on ebay ($100 - $120).

Edited April 28, 2020 by dikman

[Bert51]

Thanks dikman, I was looking for that one, could remember where I saw it.

I have a old type motor on my 132K6, which I have a smaller pulley on and it will sew through anything that fits under it's feet. I have only toyed with one with a servo motor on it and felt it had heaps of speed, but was short on torque, I think it needed a reducer on it to give it some grunt.

Go and talk to them, take some thing with you and play with it your self.

https://www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/echuca/sewing-machines/singer-132-k6-sewing-machine/1245314602

Bert.

[dikman]

It's been up for three weeks, I see. Being out in the sticks (), as in not near Melbourne, probably reduces his selling opportunities a bit so he might be open to offers?

[Fognozzle]

Wow thanks everyone, that's great info and a handy lead. What do you think might be a reasonable offer for that 132K6? And is that also a good machine if I want to sew leather in future? (I'm not anticipating that as a need, just curious).

Also - and I feel a bit daft for just realising this - I picked up an old singer off the side of the road in Melbourne many years ago, mostly I was interested in using the bench and motor as a base for a grain mill for brewing. I know I still have the bench and motor, but I may also still have the machine somewhere in the back of the shed. It is probably a domestic machine, and/or irretrievably broken, but I'll have a look today and see if I can find it!

[dikman]

Always difficult to put a price on sewing machines, depends on the condition, demand for that particular model, how many others there are out there, how badly he wants to sell it etc. If you search gumtree for 132k6 there's a few on there. All you can do is check it out, get him to demo it and feel him out pricewise. I would consider $1500 to be at the top end myself (I've seen some at $1200 in the past). Don't let him make out that having the servo is a reason for bumping the price, like I said before you can get one off ebay (Aust) for around $100 which will be more than adequate.

As for leather, no worries, it will likely do most things short of holsters and harnesses!

[Bert51]

If we were not in this lock down, I would go for a drive and say "Giday" and maybe go and have a look at that 132K6.

But like dikman said, he might be willing to drop the price, I did not pay any where near that for mine, but I had a lot of work and parts to replace. The good thing with this old machine, you can still buy consumables for it today, I got mine from Sewing Machines Australia https://www.sewingmachinesaustralia.com.au/shop/buy-spare-parts/singer/singer-132k6

Bert.

[Fognozzle]

Well, I struck out on both counts. No sign of the roadside Singer, and the seller in Echuca isn't really interested in selling the 132K6 as he's not able to get hold of its replacement just yet, so it's "only half for sale". Basically I'd have to offer his asking price AND twist his arm 

I'll keep hunting.

[Bert51]

How patient are you?

Bert.

[Fognozzle]

Hey guys, any idea what this might be?

 

[Bert51]

I cannot see all of your pictures, but I would say it is a Singer 96K41.

I have one out the back, but it wet out there to go and check.

Basically a tailoring machine, but can sew light canvas and light leather.

Bert.

 

[Fognozzle]

Thanks Bert, doesn't sound heavy enough for me. I'm just cruising ebay at the moment as we have to do a Melbourne run this weekend.

I think I need to try and  compile a list of models and their basic specs, this is a bit of a crapshoot for a beginner!

[Fognozzle]

Any opinions on a 211-166 (walking foot)? Found a dealer offering one for $1250.

[dikman]

That guy shouldn't have the ad up if he's not selling it!!

The 211 166 is an upholstery class machine, 10mm under the feet and should handle #138/M20 thread and sew what you want. I had one for a while and paid a lot less than that, sold it for $250 (head only). Extra feet are easy to buy and cheap. Do you have more details on it? What does it come with etc?

[Fognozzle]

Yeah, that was my thought too. The Gumtree member himself seems ok, but he's selling it for a mate and it sounds like the mate doesn't care if it sells or not.

The 211-166 is on eBay here: https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/INDUSTRIAL-HEAVU-DUTY-SINGER-211-WALKING-FOOT-SEWING-MACHINE-JAPAN/264692174471

INDUSTRIAL  HEAVY DUTY WALKING FOOT STRAIGHT STITCH SEWING MACHINE

MODEL: SINGER 211-166 JAPAN

IN PERFECTLY WORKING ORDER

CAN TAKE UP TO SIZE 22 WITH THREAD SIZE 20 

BUILT IN WITH SELF WINDING BOBBIN

COMES WITH INSTRUCTION SHEETS, NEEDLES, BOBBINS AND SEWING TOOLS

 

Edited April 30, 2020 by Fognozzle

[Fognozzle]

Sorry Bert, I missed your earlier question. Not really sure how patient I am! I'm pretty keen to get started, and this Melbourne trip is a bit of an opportunity, but obviously I don't want to end up with a machine I can't use. If I can find a good turnkey option then I don't mind paying a little extra for the convenience, otherwise I'll probably end up researching the life out of it for a few more months.

[dikman]

That guy's an idiot then! And if the owner can't get his upgrade so wants to keep it what's the point of leaving it at his mate's? No, they're both idiots.

I still think that 211 is a bit dear BUT it's from a dealer so should have some sort of warranty and support. At least you can try it there just be warned that clutch motors are scary things to the uninitiated! Take some scraps of your canvas with you and see how much you can get under the feet. Tilt it back on the hinges and have a look at the timing belt, make sure it's not damaged. He also has a servo for sale on his website but while it's a good one it's pretty dear.

 

[Fognozzle]

Meh, that dealer expressly states NO warranty or returns. I think I'll give that one a miss, he's not open on the weekend anyway.

The hunt continues... 

[dikman]

Hmm, I didn't think he could do that under State and Federal law. But yes, look elsewhere in that case, I'd be a bit wary of him.