Which (used) machine for an Aussie noob?

[Bert51]

He's dealer in Melbourne, I looked at a machine he had years ago and I ended up giving it a miss as he was so pricey for what he's selling.

Yes and he did not seem to to be some one I would buy from.

Bert.

[Handstitched]

I dunno, but I keep drifting towards the 132 K6 , a ' multi- purpose machine ', canvas, leather ....your fingers,  yeh nah , just kidding...I hope  

(Sure wish I had a barby  fired up right now, with snags,  and an esky full of beer     ) 

HS

[Bert51]

Can I join you HS, the weather cold and wet (thank God) over here, I'll bring the snags and slaw.

Your right about the 132K6, I like it, it sews nearly anything I can get under the feet, but I have a cylinder arm for the jobs that need it and they both use system 328 needles, so yes I do watch my fingers.

Bert.

[Fognozzle]

I'm in, although I'm leaning towards a nice wood fired pizza right now...

Agreed on the K6, it seems like the model to get. I actually called in to my local saddlery this afternoon, just in case he might have something for sale (he kinda does, he's retiring soon), and he showed me his K6. Filthy, well used, but he loved it. Reckoned he'd get $2500 for it though.

I've found a reconditioned one in Melbourne for $1500, it's obviously been resprayed at some point (silver) but it's from a dealer that claims to stand behind his products and offers a full 12 months warranty, help setting up etc. I'm planning to call him tomorrow and get a vibe, and see whether weekend pickup might be an option.

Then I just have to decide whether I really want to drop that kind of money,  although if the dealer is as genuine as he seems I probably won't lose too much if I decide to move it on later?

[dikman]

$2500???? To quote a well known Aussie, tell him he's dreaming!!

Got a link to the other one?

[Bert51]

Gee, $2500.00, I'd sell mine for that, well maybe?

Bert.

[Fognozzle]

Yep, he's dreaming  I think he'd take $2000 for it, but no less. Not right now anyway.

The one I'm looking at is on eBay for $1650: https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Used-Singer-132K6-heavy-duty-Industrial-sewing-machine/184208546428

and on their website for $1500: https://www.camsew.com.au/UsedMachines/UsedMachines.html#

What do you think? The website describes it as a long arm, but it looks like a regular machine to me, maybe they reused a title?

The other question I have is what accessories do I need? I suppose a walking foot is essential, but anything else? I read that some motors are 1420rpm and others are 2840rpm, with the 1420 being more desirable for leather. What's the ideal motor setup in your opinion? I'm thinking if he's a dealer with plenty of parts laying around he can probably set it up however I want?

 

 

 

Edited May 1, 2020 by Fognozzle

[dikman]

Definitely not a long arm.. These machines aren't a walking foot, they are what's called a jump foot where the foot flicks forward and down to help drag the material along. Obviously a slower motor would be better as it will make it a bit easier to control. Personally, I'm a great believer in servo motors as a newcomer will be able to control the machine right from the start. It's bad enough worrying about where the stitches are going without having to fight a high-speed clutch motor at the same time! Just my thoughts but Bert can advise you better as he actually has one.

[Fognozzle]

Thanks dikman, what you say makes sense. I spoke to the seller, he seems really helpful and confirmed that it has the slower speed motor, although not a servo obviously.

He sells the Ho Hsing (600w) for $375, but has offered to do it for $300 with the machine. He also said he'd have a look and see if he can find a cheaper (but still decent) servo option.

[Bert51]

dikman is right, they are not a true walking foot, but they call them a "Kick" foot, I have a 31K47 and a 132K6 and they both use the same action. As the dog moves the Kick for moves with it, then when the inner foot foot holds the material while the needle penetrates it and the feed dog returns to start the movement again.

I use a 1480 R.P.M. motor with a 60mm pulley, but I dropped it back to a 50 mm pulley as I was struggling a little after I got out of hospital last year. I call it walking speed.

I would not pay $375.00 for a Ho Hsing motor, you need to come and see me.

Bert.

[dikman]

Ho Hsing are considered to be very good motors but I wouldn't pay for one. I've bought several different servos off ebay/Aliexpress, the last couple around $100, and while they're probably not of the same quality as Ho Hsing they have been more than adequate for my needs. Another possibility, if you buy it, is to use the existing 1425 rpm motor, fit the smallest pulley you can to the motor and buy/make a speed reducer. This will slow it down somewhat. You might also be able to replace the handwheel with a large pulley (I've done this on several machines) and combined with the other two options should slow it significantly.

When I was chasing up a 441 clone I spoke to the chap at that company, and while I ended up elsewhere (long story) he was very helpful nevertheless.

Edited May 1, 2020 by dikman

[Handstitched]

23 hours ago, Bert51 said:

Can I join you HS, the weather cold and wet (thank God) over here, I'll bring the snags and slaw.

You are very welcome. I'll supply the beer, booze restrictions have been lifted here in the west . Fire restrictions just been lifted too, getting chilly here. 

 

20 hours ago, Fognozzle said:

I'm in, although I'm leaning towards a nice wood fired pizza right now...

We can do both. I do have a gas fired pizza oven . I'm a big fan of meat, pepperoni, ( mild),  csabai etc. and LOTS of cheese   

This is way off topic, but yummy   

The K6 looks great. Pics are fine,  but I would prefer to see it in person, maybe have a bit of a play , check it over etc. And maybe...just maybe, get the price down a bit more...? say $1400- $1500? 

Not sure about distance etc. but I did drive 4 hrs south of WA for my patcher . 

HS

[Wizcrafts]

I don't mean to discourage potential buyers of spring foot machines, but I used to own a Singer 132k6 and currently have a 42-5. They work great is the top grain isn't slick. The top foot needs to dig into the top and follow it back with the bottom feed dog. When the dog reaches the back of its travel and drops down, the spring foot springs forward, just like Daylight Saving Time! BUT; there's always a but...

I learned that if the material is slick on top, the spring foot just slides uselessly on the top and fights the feed dog's action. The 132k6 turned out to be a huge disappointment to me for sewing polished surfaces, like stamped and polished belts and holsters. The stitch length varied wildly as the foot slipped over the top.

TBT, the Singer 132k6 was marketed as a buffing wheel sewing machine and there was an attachment that moved stacks of round cloth in a circle and away from the needle as it sewed arcs. That's why they have a long 1/2 inch maximum stitch length and 1/2 inch clearance under the feet.

[Fognozzle]

Oh salami and cheese, you are talking my language! If we can add a loaf of fresh sourdough and some good cider, we've got ourselves a party!

That K6 is $1500 on his website. We're going to look at it today - Mrs Fognozzle has already nominated some jobs for it, so I suppose that's already an aye from that side of the chamber!

Thanks Wizcrafts for that tip, salient for many I'm sure, although not enough to dissuade me at this point as I'm still mainly focussed on canvas for any machine work.

I had a little chat with Bert offline and he recommended I see how I go with the clutch before swapping it for a servo, which seems like good advice. He reckons with the right belt tension and proper lubrication it should be easy to use.

Hopefully I'll get to have a play with it today anyway and let you know how I go!

 

[Wizcrafts]

Clutch motors are easy to tweak via a bolt on the front left, in front ot eh output axle. Backing it out gives more slack before she engages. Then you can adjust the spring on the right end of the control lever to push it up more or less. Of course, the position of the foot pedal can be adjusted to suit your foot or shoe profile. Finally, a very small motor pulley will slow it way down. I recommend a 50mm or smaller machine pulley and a longer type 3L belt to match.

[JJN]

3 hours ago, Wizcrafts said:

longer type 3L belt to match.

Shorter belt?

[DonInReno]

It can be challenging to figure out what prices machines sell for unless you can watch the market for many months, have great advice from the folks here, or it’s possible to search for machines that have sold.  For instance eBay can be searched for completed sales that have either sold or not sold - not sure if you even have eBay there  

As limited as the 132k6 is for leather, it’s still popular the world over for heavy canvas.  The only reason to choose this model over a walking foot upholstery machine would be it’s ability to sew with thread larger than 138.  An upholstery machine would have better control and flexibility in different presser feet.  

Best of luck

 

 

[Wizcrafts]

14 hours ago, JJN said:

Shorter belt?

You may be right. It's been a year since I changed pulleys on a mounted motor. Let's just say "a new v-belt to mach the different pulley."

[Savvas]

Hi Folks,

I've been following this conversation with some interest as I too am in Australia (Adelaide) and have a 42-5 head 'under the bench'. I bought it as a bare 'head' for a few dollars to rescue it from a fellow who was cutting machines up to make tractors! Had no real idea what it was initially and knew nothing about the 'jump foot' mechanism until I started reading about it on-line. Wizcrafts explanation above makes it very clear! I too have been pining for an older walking foot or compound feed machine. However funds are limited and of course such machines tend to be far more expensive in Australia than they are in the USA.

Now I've managed to get through some of the bigger overdue house maintenance jobs, my attention is turning to that large lump of iron under the bench and wondering again what it'll take to get it going again. I have a suitable steel table and a servo motor is an easy find. The machine appears to have a slightly bent needbar and I'm hoping I'll be able to take it out and tweak it straight (or maybe replace it even). I guess I'm curious to know how adequate others may have found the 42-5 for general canvas work with the occasional addition of some 'functional' leather trim (reinforcement, binding protection etc)?

I've been contemplating a 132K as well but as noted, they are not cheap! I had understood them to have a proper walking-foot, but if they only have a jump foot, they maybe no real advantage over my 42-5 (apart perhaps from reverse)? There's a 31K47 available locally as well but if that too has the jump foot mechanism, maybe - again - no real advantage...

I'm also very curious to know when Singer first introduced the true top-feed mechanism? Were the early cylinder-arm machines such as the Model 17-8/10 (described by ISMACS as having 'alternating pressers') top-feed or did they have a jump foot too? I have a very nice1929 15K28 'industrial' machine (I think 'artisan' is the better descriptor) and have often wondered if the closely related 15-28 - also described by ISMACS as having 'alternating pressers' - was simply a jump-foot machine?

Any insights and advice much appreciated!

Sam

ps; and in these difficult times, may your houses not fall down around you as mine appears intent on doing!

 

[Bert51]

I have both the 132K6 and 31K47 and to me the 31K47 is a baby 132K6.  I read the same article about the 15-28, so I assume it is the same as the 31K47 and 132K6.

They both sew what you can get under the feet and the only trouble I have had is when I get to a thick seem, but I borrowed a plastic device to put under the feet and have no more problems doing thick seems.

Wiz said he likes his 42-5 over the 132K6 and Wiz has been around these machine a lot longer then I have, I have not used or seen a live 42-5 in the flesh.

Bert.

[Wizcrafts]

I have a Singer 42-5 in my (now closed) leather shop. I use it to sew chaps and heavy upholstery, like motorcycle seats. I actually bought a handful of bobbins from somebody in Australia. I forget who.

I am able to fit exactly 5/16 inch under the feet. Not one iota more. It feeds very reliably and has sharp teeth on the feed dog. I also got a good supply of authentic Singer leather point needles for and with the machine (System 88?). Those needles are now irreplaceable. Anybody with a 42-5 who doesn't have the proper needles may have to lower the needle bar to use System 135x16, which will reduce the maximum sewing thickness to 1/4 inch.

[Savvas]

Thankyou Bert and Wiz - very encouraging info. I shall get cracking and put my machine in order asap.

Do either of you know if it's still possible to get a needlebar for the 42-5? Or can either of you point me to a repair manual for this machine. I know that there are user and parts manuals online but I would like some guidance about removing and then replacing the needle bar - bit reluctant to just wing it!

Thanks,

Sam. 

[dikman]

Savvas, be best to start a new post then you can keep all your questions and answers in one place. Makes it easier for others too if searching on the same subject.

[Bert51]

Try this,

http://www.dixiesewing.com/MANUALS/SINGERSERVICE/42 CLASS-Inst.pdf

and

http://www.dixiesewing.com/MANUALS/SINGERPARTS2/42-5.pdf

Bert.

Edited May 3, 2020 by Bert51

[Savvas]

On 5/3/2020 at 8:51 PM, Bert51 said:

Try this,

http://www.dixiesewing.com/MANUALS/SINGERSERVICE/42 CLASS-Inst.pdf

and

http://www.dixiesewing.com/MANUALS/SINGERPARTS2/42-5.pdf

Bert.

Thankyou for the references Bert. I've managed to down load these. No 'workshop' manual unfortunately buy=t I'm sure I'll muddle through. I've just managed to pick up a Singer industrial-style treadle base cheaply so that'll spur the 42-5 project on as it's incredibly difficult to keep lifting the thing on and off my work bench (which is crowded with projects). I'll just need to make a suitable table. Thanks for your assistance! Sam

.