Really confused about glue

[ThoughtFission]

On 7/20/2020 at 11:23 PM, $$hobby said:

used the Eurostar several times but always bought 6 months out.

Only internal French trips was Paris <> Bayeux and Bayeux <> Caen.  Not a big deal $$ wise.  Did some other CROSSborder trains, but again, i buy sooner than later.  

But what i found out via Seat61 is that for INTRAcountry trains price can be expensive such as in the UK depending on where/when.  But if you buy tickets sooner than later you can usually get some good deals.  

Yes, they maybe expensive and to me its relative.  But considering that i hate driving and the trains over-there work for me.  Even if it cost a bit more, id rather take a train anytime and any day than to drive.

but for me, i would use it as an "excuse" to get out of dodge and to be in some other country for a while.

No question, trains are a great way to travel in France/Europe. It's just that as a person just starting a small leather business, every penny is precious. But I get your point.

[Danne]

58 minutes ago, ThoughtFission said:

No question, trains are a great way to travel in France/Europe. It's just that as a person just starting a small leather business, every penny is precious. But I get your point.

You said you planned to use Renia Colle (If you do, then use a respirator, because of the solvents.)

But do you really need a solvent based glue? The only time I use solvent based glues are when I use synthethic reinforcement. Water based glues as really good, and very strong when used as contact cement.

For example. Peter Nitz used Saregum 130 for both bags and wallets (He often used it for alligator/crocodile and chevre) for years with good result, he recently changed to Ecostick. But Saregum will work fine for regular leather (you might need a solvent based glue if you work with really oily/waxy leathers. Are you going to stitch your edges, if yes then you certainly don't have to worry.

A couple of alternatives in France:

Saregum 130: https://mando.fr/index.php?dispatch=products.view&amp;product_id=2128

Aquagum 018: https://www.cuirtextilecrea.com/colle-contact-aqueuse-aquagum-018-500-ml-c2x26994292

Ecostick resellers in France: d.kermarec@compagniedestanneurs.com and contact@eprose.fr

 

[ThoughtFission]

11 hours ago, Danne said:

You said you planned to use Renia Colle (If you do, then use a respirator, because of the solvents.)

But do you really need a solvent based glue? The only time I use solvent based glues are when I use synthethic reinforcement. Water based glues as really good, and very strong when used as contact cement.

For example. Peter Nitz used Saregum 130 for both bags and wallets (He often used it for alligator/crocodile and chevre) for years with good result, he recently changed to Ecostick. But Saregum will work fine for regular leather (you might need a solvent based glue if you work with really oily/waxy leathers. Are you going to stitch your edges, if yes then you certainly don't have to worry.

A couple of alternatives in France:

Saregum 130: https://mando.fr/index.php?dispatch=products.view&amp;product_id=2128

Aquagum 018: https://www.cuirtextilecrea.com/colle-contact-aqueuse-aquagum-018-500-ml-c2x26994292

Ecostick resellers in France: d.kermarec@compagniedestanneurs.com and contact@eprose.fr

 

Wow! thank you so much. Very helpful info!

[Danne]

2 hours ago, ThoughtFission said:

Wow! thank you so much. Very helpful info!

compagniedestanneurs also sell grained calf in smaller panels which is nice for a small crafter (i.e no need to buy full skins. They call it Epsom which is Hermès brand name for Haas Derby from tannery Haas. I can't really find any information if compagniedestanneurs is a tannery or a reseller, and if this leather is from Haas or if they just call it Epsom (because most people now that leather type as Epsom) I don't speak French, if this leather is something that is suitable for you, and maybe you check their site or get samples, I would be very thankful if you updated me, if it's not Haas Derby (Epsom) how is the leather, what temper, full grain? and such. 

 

Edited August 3, 2020 by Danne

[ThoughtFission]

10 hours ago, Danne said:

compagniedestanneurs also sell grained calf in smaller panels which is nice for a small crafter (i.e no need to buy full skins. They call it Epsom which is Hermès brand name for Haas Derby from tannery Haas. I can't really find any information if compagniedestanneurs is a tannery or a reseller, and if this leather is from Haas or if they just call it Epsom (because most people now that leather type as Epsom) I don't speak French, if this leather is something that is suitable for you, and maybe you check their site or get samples, I would be very thankful if you updated me, if it's not Haas Derby (Epsom) how is the leather, what temper, full grain? and such. 

 

I can certainly have  look for you. But to be honest, my French skills aren't great either. I'm just at the beginning of my leather odyssey, so I'm just learning and I'm not sure I would feel comfortable giving anyone advice at this point. I get my leather from a local supplier. I have the good fortune to live very close to a bunch of leather houses, including the new Hermes factories here in the south west of France. So I have a few options for leather right here in my back yard. I hadn't heard of La Campanie des Tanneurs until you mentioned them.

I did have one follow on question regarding Evo-Stik. A lot of people recommend it. Does it also use Solvents? I also found a water based glue last week that gets rave reviews and apparently is used by the likes of Hermes and others. I think I might try it.

[Spyros]

On 7/19/2020 at 8:24 PM, toxo said:

I'm always surprised on these glue threads that no one mentions Gorilla glue. It's not like other glues. You have to dampen the leather and it foams and expands and you have to hold it in place whilst it cures - moveable for ten mins, sets in about an hour and fully cured after 24hrs. I've only used it for small applications but by Christ it holds. Made a mistake and inadvertantly moved a piece when putting books on it. next day I had to rip the leather glue was going nowhere. I've often thought it might be the answer for those oily leathers the other stuff won't do.

For most of my glueing I use a cheap solvent based contact adhesive that frustrated me because it dried out too quickly in the tin but I'm happy now since I bought a bottle of toluene and now I can have it as runny as I like every time.

I can't find any use for gorilla glue, maybe rough carpentry or construction.   I did use it on a strop, then I clamped it all night and like you said in the morning it had foamed, expanded and leaked from the edges, and I had to cut the excess  with a knife.  I cant imagine doing that in a bag or a wallet.

[Danne]

4 hours ago, ThoughtFission said:

I can certainly have  look for you. But to be honest, my French skills aren't great either. I'm just at the beginning of my leather odyssey, so I'm just learning and I'm not sure I would feel comfortable giving anyone advice at this point. I get my leather from a local supplier. I have the good fortune to live very close to a bunch of leather houses, including the new Hermes factories here in the south west of France. So I have a few options for leather right here in my back yard. I hadn't heard of La Campanie des Tanneurs until you mentioned them.

I did have one follow on question regarding Evo-Stik. A lot of people recommend it. Does it also use Solvents? I also found a water based glue last week that gets rave reviews and apparently is used by the likes of Hermes and others. I think I might try it.

According to a nice French guy I talked to it's Haas Derby (Epsom) If I understood him correct. 

Just so you don't mix up two different glues here. Ecostick = water based, no solvents, so not toxic, apart from probably a smaller amounts of fungicides to avoid mold. I have no experience with Evo-Stik, but just by doing a Google search I see them i metal jars, which almost always means solvent based. 

What glue did you find. Keep one thing in mind, it's very easy to think "Oh Hermès use it, it has to be the best glue for me" 

What do you need from a glue? adhesion to the different types of leather you use, easy to apply, no need to keep it in press (just assemble and use a roll or hammer), no strong solvents if not needed. This was examples of what could be your criteria when searching for a glue.

For Hermès it's different. First there can't be any strong solvents (even though there probably are situation where they need to use solvent based glues) but it wouldn't be a good solution for most things, because people would have masks, they would have to install special ventilation where they glue. Other things, how do they apply glue? I doubt they use a brush for bags, I would guess they use a glue that is thin or possible to thin down so they can spray it on. 

Also the strongest glue isn't always the best. I have no experience repairing or making handbags, but I have seen repair photos and clips online, and you need to take apart the bag to repair some things. If it would be glued with a strong solvent based contact cement it wouldn't be possible without destroying the bag. 

Just some thoughts. And I will never use anything but water based glues for regular leather, because I don't see any need for it.

[ThoughtFission]

2 hours ago, Danne said:

According to a nice French guy I talked to it's Haas Derby (Epsom) If I understood him correct. 

Just so you don't mix up two different glues here. Ecostick = water based, no solvents, so not toxic, apart from probably a smaller amounts of fungicides to avoid mold. I have no experience with Evo-Stik, but just by doing a Google search I see them i metal jars, which almost always means solvent based. 

What glue did you find. Keep one thing in mind, it's very easy to think "Oh Hermès use it, it has to be the best glue for me" 

What do you need from a glue? adhesion to the different types of leather you use, easy to apply, no need to keep it in press (just assemble and use a roll or hammer), no strong solvents if not needed. This was examples of what could be your criteria when searching for a glue.

For Hermès it's different. First there can't be any strong solvents (even though there probably are situation where they need to use solvent based glues) but it wouldn't be a good solution for most things, because people would have masks, they would have to install special ventilation where they glue. Other things, how do they apply glue? I doubt they use a brush for bags, I would guess they use a glue that is thin or possible to thin down so they can spray it on. 

Also the strongest glue isn't always the best. I have no experience repairing or making handbags, but I have seen repair photos and clips online, and you need to take apart the bag to repair some things. If it would be glued with a strong solvent based contact cement it wouldn't be possible without destroying the bag. 

Just some thoughts. And I will never use anything but water based glues for regular leather, because I don't see any need for it.

Thank you, really appreciate your advice. Love your stuff on imgur!

[Danne]

1 hour ago, ThoughtFission said:

Thank you, really appreciate your advice. Love your stuff on imgur!

Thank you,

[Wykoni]

On 7/15/2020 at 12:44 PM, ThoughtFission said:

Hi,

There seems to be as many options as to what glue you should use for leather work as their are types of glue. Can anyone tell me what the right kind of glue is for making bags and wallets? PVA? Water based contact cement? Non water based contact cement? Something else? Thanks!

 

Ok, something I just discovered but others have know forever.  For linings I used contact cement.  Barge contact cement for most part.  For something I really want to hold a void slippage and where there may be stress while I am stitching, I have found white elmers glue works great with clamps.  Should have known this because I have been using this type glue in wood working all my life.  Two glues, makes it easy.