Oluffen Report post Posted July 17, 2020 Hi folks! I´m completely new in this forum and this is my first post. I have a Claes & Flentje from somewhere around the 1890´s which I´m trying to get going. I think the model is Militaria or possibly Sattler No. VIII. However I have just one needle for it and before I break it it would be nice to have some new ones! Does anyone have a clue what needle system it uses and where I can get hold of new needles? Here are some needle measurements: Overall length ca 82 mm Shank diameter ca 2,4 mm Butt to top of eye ca 71 mm Butt to bottom of eye ca 73 mm Also see the pictures! And finally! Does anyone have any additional information about this type of machine (or similar) I would be very grateful. For instance I´m not sure of how to thread it! Regards, Johan Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Constabulary Report post Posted July 17, 2020 (edited) I have an old needle comparison list from METWAR. Based on your measures is could be needle System 124. alternatively I would try system 1000 or 586 but it maybe challenging to find them. I once had an Adler III and have used 794 needles with no problems but I do not know if the machined had a different needle bar Edited July 17, 2020 by Constabulary Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jimi Report post Posted July 17, 2020 (edited) Atlas had the same type of machine, here are some pictures i have just found on the net. This red machine seems to be selling for 50€ so if you need spares you can look it up, The name of the site is on the picture. There is a black machine with white thread which might help you threading it up correctly. Edited July 17, 2020 by jimi Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Oluffen Report post Posted July 17, 2020 Thank you Constabulary and jimi. @Constabulary Do you happen to have a digital copy of the needle comparison list that you could share? I´m quite knew to this and all the needles system makes me dizzy! :-) And do you know any place I could read more about the 124 and 586 system? (I think I have ruled out system 1000 as to long? @jimi -Do you happen to know what the ATLAS version of this machine was called? (So it will be easier for me to google the internet for more information and perhaps as you suggested, spare parts.) Thanks again! / Johan Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jimi Report post Posted July 17, 2020 Sorry johan, i do not know what version it is Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Constabulary Report post Posted July 17, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, Oluffen said: Thank you Constabulary and jimi. @Constabulary Do you happen to have a digital copy of the needle comparison list that you could share? I´m quite knew to this and all the needles system makes me dizzy! :-) And do you know any place I could read more about the 124 and 586 system? (I think I have ruled out system 1000 as to long? Thanks again! / Johan No PDF - sorry, the list is old and fragile and page will fall apart when I scan it so I´m sorry! But I´ll a take a picture... System 124 and 586 are outdated and no longer in production I think. System 1000 is most likely the only needle you can buy on the free market. Thats how it goes with 120 years (I guess) old machines. Welcome to the funny vintage sewing machine game Edited July 17, 2020 by Constabulary Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Constabulary Report post Posted July 17, 2020 (edited) Hope this helps but most likely not much - as I said the 124 and 586 are obsolete you may find some 1000 needles here and there but most are round point I think. As I mentioned in my thread reg. Adler III (linked in my 1st post)) - I have use 794 needles though the machine was meant for a longer needles - so they may work with your machine too when the thread loop is wide enough - maybe worth trying. Edited July 17, 2020 by Constabulary Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Oluffen Report post Posted July 17, 2020 Many thanks @Constabulary! Especially the picture with the needles portrayed will be useful. So good to have a sense of what the different needles looks like. (A bit strange that nobody has made a modern chart over this.) I´ll try to get hold of some System 1000 needles, but as I understand it they are also discontinued and replaced with the 1000H system? The big difference as I can see is that the original 1000 needles had more or less the same diameter through out the whole length of the needle whilst the 1000H looks more like a modern needle. Do you think that will be any big difference when using it? Thanks again! / Johan Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Constabulary Report post Posted July 18, 2020 Well back then books where like the internet of old times (thats where knowledge came from ) nowadays you find technical data for the most common needles in the www. But of course not for the outdated / no longer in production needles cause no one really needs them anymore except some vintage sewing machine crazy dudes like us. I honestly don´t know what the difference between 1000H and 1000 is. I guess the shaft diameter or needle tip or position of needle eye could be different. Maybe some of the sewing machine dealers here have more knowledge (from old books). Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chrisash Report post Posted July 18, 2020 Just as a matter of interest, what is the main problem in making new needles for the older machines, my own thoughts would be the cost of the dies to make them and run numbers, obviously the demand would be small, but some machines like the SD28 may merit a reasonable number of sales With the facebook full of small groups, I guess over time something like say a SD28 group could get together worldwide and afford to have some made for the group, and so on for other types of machine Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Constabulary Report post Posted July 18, 2020 (edited) Reg. SD28 There is only 1 machine that needs this particular needle and the machine no longer is in production so its just a matter of time until needles are dried out. However lots of orthopedic / cobbler supplies wholesalers on my side of the pond have the SD28 needles but I cannot buy them because they exclusively supply the cobblers trade and no other businesses - not kidding. I tried 3 times to open an account and they did not sell to me - they do background checks as it seems. Again - a very special needle for just 1 single machine - so why should a dealer stock these needles? Just not enough demand. Even when there are 1000 machines worldwide... Most are ran by hobbyist I think so not really much demand there... But you can ask SCHMETZ to make them but afaik you at least have to buy 10000 needle of 1 size. So even when you are a dealer... 10000 (rather expensive) needles of 1 size for an outdated machine... and then try to sell them - shipping cost may kill the deal when someone just wants 10 or 20 needles or so. So you may sit on them for decades. I do not think it is economic for either party. Edited July 18, 2020 by Constabulary Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CowboyBob Report post Posted July 18, 2020 4 hours ago, Constabulary said: Well back then books where like the internet of old times (thats where knowledge came from ) nowadays you find technical data for the most common needles in the www. But of course not for the outdated / no longer in production needles cause no one really needs them anymore except some vintage sewing machine crazy dudes like us. I honestly don´t know what the difference between 1000H and 1000 is. I guess the shaft diameter or needle tip or position of needle eye could be different. Maybe some of the sewing machine dealers here have more knowledge (from old books). My guess would be like most other needles they put a scarf in them so they will work in modern machines. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Oluffen Report post Posted September 13, 2020 Thank you all, especially @Constabulary Machine is working with needlesystem 1000 H Now I need suitable thread, the one I'm using now is to thin! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
