Wrapping Horn

[rktaylor]

I have struggled a bit getting horn wraps as tight as I want them. I thought this was really tight, but this is what happened after the leather dried. Any clues to my problem? I thought the leather would tighten as it dried. Thanks for any tips.

Randy

[oltoot]

Final use of the "chinaman" (greased w/ liquid soap) and then repulling ends and smoothing before drying

[rktaylor]

Oltoot,

I thought I had some torque on my wrap handle (cut off pool cue), but maybe not enough. I did not use soap, but will give it a try. Everything looked really good while it was still wet. Thanks,

Randy

Edited August 18, 2020 by rktaylor

[DanC]

You are using the wrong stuff (leather)

You need to use RAWHIDE.  It needs to be soaked, then stretched around the horn and stitched in place then allowed to dry completely.  Then after several days apply a preservative of some kind.

Any book on saddle making - including YouTube - will show you how to wrap a saddle horn.  From form fitting leather to the shape of the horn to stitching it up the back side.  I don't think simple wrapping will do.  It will never lay "flat" on the overlap.

Yours - just isn't right - sorry bout that.

Edited August 18, 2020 by DanC

[Goldshot Ron]

Randy,

Could you take a photo of the back side also, and post it?  Also, are you telling us ALL the steps you are taking.  If you are doing it Oltoots way, it should come out just fine.  For a torquing tool, I've used hammer handles, but my favorite tool is and old phillips screwdriver (don't know the size, but about 12" long) that I use also as a steel for sharpening my knives.

Oh yeah, I suggest using a lighter weight filler on your horn cap.  It reduces the bulky look of your horn.

Ron

[rktaylor]

DanC,

Thanks for the tips. I agree its not right. I am mostly relying on the Stohlman books which teach to cover horns like this. I'm just not very good at it, but I'm trying to get better.

Ron,

Here's a photo of the back and another while it was still wet. Once the cap was sewn, I stretched the underneath piece as tight (I thought) as I could get it. It looked and felt tight. I wrapped the top layer clockwise, pulled, smoothed, and pulled some more. Then wrapped it with my latigo piece and torqued it pretty good (again I thought) with my trusty pool cue. The kicker is that I walked away thinking this looks really good. Then saw it the next morning. I also agree on the filler. I skived the piece to about 8 oz. I probably should have skived all three layers. I knew it was going to look thick because the horn cap is 1.5 inches. Funny thing is, the customer is going to wrap it with an inner tube and start roping as soon as he gets it. 

Randy

[Josh Ashman]

Hey Randy, with only 4 saddles under my belt I'm not in any position to give advice. I just chimed in to say that once it's covered in innertube or mule hide t won't matter a bit . If I did have to guess I'd wonder about hitting it with your latigo and cut off pool cue about half dry to see if you could convince the feather edges of the wrap to stay down. Might even be able to re-wet them now and give it a try. 

Your fit up on the backside and stitching are sure nice!

All the best, Josh

[Goldshot Ron]

Randy,

Stohlman's pattern for their horns was a "v" style.  What I have found for a straight up dally horn is to make your pattern with the wings more straight out to the cap.  I don't use dish soap for lubrication of my chinaman, I use a lot of the white saddle soap on it.  I also start forming my cover around the post to set the form of the leather.  When satisfied, I unwrap and use Elmer's white glue on the flesh side of the leather and rewrap.  I'll use my chinaman strap several times during this process; each time pulling the tacks and pulling out more slack out of the wings until I'm satisfied.  I have gotten carried away and burnished the post leather by doing this, but like Josh said, if it's going to be wrapped with an inner tube no one will see it.  Also, the white glue will clean off of the grain side with no problem. 

Back to the horn cap; I like mine to have a convex look on top, so I skive only the edges, and not the whole filler piece.  I'm still trying to prefect this method, so I'm no expert.

Good luck.

[rktaylor]

Josh and Ron,

Thanks for the tips and compliments. I redid this horn with a little more focus on both tails of the wrap. I also attempted to skive the pieces as descried by Ron. It took some thickness out, but I need a couple more reps to improve. I also attached my pattern. The horn cap is larger than I need for this saddle, but I didn't want to make a new pattern. Happy stitching,

Randy

[Goldshot Ron]

How do you feel about this attempt Randy?  Your left wrap around looks good.  Once you finish the cap off, I think it'll look good.  

 

[Ken Nelson]

I use a pair of lasting pliers to pull as much slack out of the wings as I can when I put the wraps on the horn.   I tack them, ( leaving the tacks out a little so I can pull them) then I take my "choke strap", very wet and a lot of white saddle soap on it and pull the wrap tight.  It is surprising the slack that the choke strap will pull out. I work on choking a horn wrap several times to make sure I get it to my satisfaction.

Your notch on the rear of the horn is a bit too wide for your horn pattern.    Your bottom piece is not pulled up against the bottom the horn tight enough on the second horn.

I had the good luck to work for a great saddle maker when I first got started and he told me pretty quick to be really picky about how a horn looks.  Everytime a rider looks down, he sees that horn. It is one of those things that shows a window to your workmanship.  It won't make the saddle less usable but it is something a discriminating buyer has a problem with if  it is not done well.

It will get easier, and all of us go through the learning stages.

 

[rktaylor]

Ron and Ken,

It seems like I fix one problem and then see the next. There are some things that Ken pointed out that need improvement, but it will have to be on the next saddle. I did get the bottom piece pulled up tighter, but that will definitely be a point of focus on the next saddle. I appreciate all the feedback.

Randy

[Ken Nelson]

I use most of the method taught in Harry Adam's book to cover horns-the bottom and filler.  One thing I do on it, is after I skive the cut out, I let the bottom piece dry and glue it with contact cement and rewet it before I put it on the saddle.  I glue the horn, and install the bottom piece before the glue sets up. If I have the filler and and "cap piece ready, by the time they are installed, the glue will be ready to make a tight bond on the bottom piece.  Let your choke strap set it tight against the bottom of your horn. Don't forget to tack your filler in place so the whole cover does not spin when someone dallies something heavy to it.

I make my cut in the filler and bottom  about a scant 1/8" narrower than the piece that goes in it.  I also don't skive that part of the cap and wings very much.  If you do, it will stretch and be too narrow to fill the cutout. 

I don't know if I do it right but counting all the horns I have recovered and new ones I have done, it is up over (and I am estimating here) 300 horns. I hope this helps someone a little bit. I hope I don't sound like I am being critical, I would like to help someone learn.  I don't know about a lot of types of saddles but I do know a lot about working saddles.  I build a lot of them and most of them go to some pretty darn good cowboys on very large ranches that use them hard. I don't advise anyone on pleasure, trail, cutting saddles or barrel saddles.  I am not qualified to comment on constructing them.   However,  There are a number of people that will give you a lot of advice on building a working ranch saddle that are unqualified to comment on building them. 

[oltoot]

Little bit but, if you don't sew the cap till last, you can pull and stretch things in line a little better from an additional direction

[Ken Nelson]

You are absolutely right! I would be lost without my duck bills and lasting pliers.