Need advice - how soften 5mm veg tan leather?

[TonyGreen3455]

Hello! 
Can you please give advice for a novice - how to make a 5mm veg tan leather softer?
I mean not the surface, but the skin itself? 
How to make it less dense, more pliable, so that it bends easier.
Seen a lot of advice on youtube, but... looks like all videos about a surface, not about a leather structure.
Can anyone here help me?

[fredk]

Depends on just how stiff it is and why. If its a case of being stiff as it is too dry just about the best option is to apply Neetsfoot Oil. 

1. use pure Neetsfoot Oil and not the compound

2. apply it in small amounts and let it soak in. Its very easy to apply too much and the leather gets saturated with the oil and then you can just write that leather off as its almost impossible to get the oil out again

[TonyGreen3455]

1 hour ago, fredk said:

Depends on just how stiff it is and why. If its a case of being stiff as it is too dry just about the best option is to apply Neetsfoot Oil. 

1. use pure Neetsfoot Oil and not the compound

2. apply it in small amounts and let it soak in. Its very easy to apply too much and the leather gets saturated with the oil and then you can just write that leather off as its almost impossible to get the oil out again

fredk, many thanks for your reply.

the skin is tough because it is thick, I wouldn't call it "dry".
anyway, I will try your way.
BTW - on which side I have to use oil - from glossy shiny or matt bottom? 

[fredk]

Either side is good, but on raw veg tan I prefer applying to the 'flesh' side - your 'matt bottom'

The other side is called the 'grain side'

I have some 4 - 4.6mm veg tan and its quite pliable so if your 5mm is very stiff it sounds like its dry.

Its always best to wet the section along which you are going to fold. Also a groove gouged on the inside of the bend helps

[TonyGreen3455]

OK, just to be sure - here is a photo of two leather with approximately the same thickness. the softness is very different. 
do they bend differently due to dryness?

Neatsfoot Oil - is a solution?

[tsunkasapa]

It looks like you are comparing veg tan to chrome tan. These are completely different types of leather. Some Milled veg tan can be quite flexible, but strap/tooling veg tan will never be as flexible as chrome tan.

[TonyGreen3455]

Мaybe you're right, tsunkasapa
I'm just confused by the color of the raw edge - does it look like veg?
Or am I wrong and is it real chrome leather, just thick?

[battlemunky]

That piece on the inside loop looks like chrome and by its nature will be softer. Its all in the tannage differences.

I guess its time now to ask why you need it soft? If you're looking to make a vest or garment with thick vegtan, you're gonna have a hard time with it being wearable without having a bunch of smaller pieces like scaled armor or something. If you're looking to make a sheath or holster type item, you want it stiffer.

[TonyGreen3455]

This leather was proposed to used for a holster flap.
And probably for another kind of flaps as well (i.e. bags, cases, etc., ).
Maybe it is a bit thicker than necessary, but I was hoping I'll be able to soften it and it will be OK. 
2battlemunky - on the raw edge, the soft leather looks very similar to the hard one - how you can see that it is a chrome tanned leather? 
Just because of softness?
Means I never ever will get 5mm veg leather such a soft/flexy?

[fredk]

1. that leather can be identified as chrome tanned by the bluey-green colour in the edge

2. the stiffness of your leather can depend on where on the animal's body it came from and from which animal. Assuming cow; 5 mm from the back bone area is very much stiffer than 5 mm from the belly area which is more pliable and stretchy, with different amounts of flexibility between the two, then there are shoulders, stiff but not as stiff as back and not nearly as big to get long thick belts from. Leather from buffalo is stiffer everywhere than cow, and camel is more flexible everywhere compared to cow.

3. I think 5 mm is pretty thick for a flap on anything. On period holsters I've checked out the flaps are no more than half that and often thinner, about 1.8 to 2 mm. On bags I've made I've never gone above 2.6 mm on big bags and never above 1.6 to 1.8 mm on smaller bags. Choice of leather for each part of a project is part of the game, eg whilst 2.2 mm stiff leather might be good for the front & rear panels and flap of a bag its not really good for the gussets, there you'd want 1.6 -1.8 mm belly leather

4. Not knowing where you get your leather, I suggest you work up a relationship with them so you can tell them what you need the leather for and they'll send you that. eg. I've bought 99% of my leather from Le Prevo in Newcastle. Recently, I needed about 20 -22 sq ft of moderately flexible 1.6 mm veg tan. I emailed them my requirements. They sorted out a hide for me and within the week I had the hide at my place. Their choice for me is just right.

[TonyGreen3455]

fredk, many thanks! 
found a lot of new things...

[Handstitched]

I have used 5mm veg tan leather for fishing gimbles  for the round part in the middle. I soaked the pieces over night . I end up with arms like Arnie after moulding, shaping, etc.  . But where the  round part is sewn onto the main body, I've skived about a mm or so to make life a bit easier   . 

It just takes a bit of brute force......and a few shots of whisky  .

I made that last bit up  

HS

[TonyGreen3455]

HS, many thanks!

I'll start from whisky, let see... :)  

[battlemunky]

On 9/17/2020 at 11:49 AM, TonyGreen3455 said:

This leather was proposed to used for a holster flap.
And probably for another kind of flaps as well (i.e. bags, cases, etc., ).
Maybe it is a bit thicker than necessary, but I was hoping I'll be able to soften it and it will be OK. 
2battlemunky - on the raw edge, the soft leather looks very similar to the hard one - how you can see that it is a chrome tanned leather? 
Just because of softness?
Means I never ever will get 5mm veg leather such a soft/flexy?

@fredk beat me to it. 

You could maybe soften it some by a light oiling as suggested and then working it in your hands, essentially milling it, to soften it some. I think your hands will wear out on 5mm leather before it reaches chrome soft though.

[Boondoggle]

I've softened up some fairly firm and thick veg tan (russet) straps with application of lubricants (wax and oils) and working them.   For bridle or harness leather you'll want to be careful with adding treatments to it.  

 In the case of straps I draw them back and forth over a dowel (or table leg) repeatedly.   The idea is to bend it frequently and from both / all directions.  You should be able to do this with a non-strap piece but it will be less convenient and probably take longer.  Not sure but I suspect this will also weaken the leather a bit.

Drawing it over something like a ball hitch in all directions might do the trick.

Edited March 1, 2021 by Boondoggle