{Solved} Pfaff 545 stitch length problem, can’t get a max stitch length. What could it be?

[hugocrafts]

hey, people

So, I picked this older Pfaff 545, CLMN-8 which says it has 8 mm stitch length. However, the lever is all the way down, but the maximum stitch length that I get is about 6 mm or so, but not 8 mm. What could be the problem? Is it something messed up or? Has anyone experienced something like this before, getting a smaller stitch length than what it's supposed to?

Hugo

Edited December 16, 2020 by Northmount
Changed title for OP

[CowboyBob]

Is the feed dog lifting high enough it can cause a drag on your material if isn't? You can also check the needlebar by pushing it front to back & see how much play it has,also do this with the feed dog & then follow back on the shafts & you might find a loose or wornout part.

[Uwe]

Congratulation on your Pfaff, they are generally really good machines. 

The model letter code of your machine does not include a “P”, which indicates that your machine does not have a four-motion feed dog. The feed dog only moves front to back, but not up and down. This feed mode is often found on machines intended for binding operations. 

The feed dog does not drop down to get out of the way as it moves towards the front. Friction from the feed dog rubbing against the underside of the material as it moves towards the front may cause the material to slip a little and shorten stitch length. 

I’d recommend doing a stitch length test with a piece of cardboard or thick paper, and without top thread. You can print out this template to make it a little easier: http://docs.uwe.net/slg.pdf

You can also just measure the how far the needle moves front to back as you flip the reverse lever up and down. Turn the hand wheel until the tip of the descending needle is level with the throat plate. Then move the reverse lever up an down. Put a ruler next to the needle to measure how far the needle moves. This measurement is the max stitch length the machine can produce with current adjustments.

If the stitch length on paper is far below the 8mm target, you may need to look into timing of the feed movement. For example, if the needle penetrates the material before is reaches the very front of its feed movement, it will also shorten stitch length.

Get ready to take some clear close-up photos or better yet a video of your machine’s feed movement.

[hugocrafts]

hey, @Uwe. Thanks, I hope I won't regret purchasing this sewing machine. Here's a close-up video of the situation. Please advise on how to remedy this:

 

Edited September 17, 2020 by hugocrafts

[Uwe]

Thanks for that video - nicely done!

I really don't see anything obviously wrong that needs to be remedied. The feed dog definitely does not move up/down. But it has a pretty good front-to-back movement - try to measure that if you can. I have a feeling it actually moves more than 6mm. Then the real world decrease in stitch length may have to do with how much the material may slip during the stitching. Sometimes the act of pulling the knot tight also pulls the material forward a little if it's not held in place securely. Your current feet and feed dog have a fairly small footprint. 

Be careful not to run the machine under power with the throat plate removed (bad things may happen if the bobbin case rotates freely). Also make sure you align the tab of the bobbin case in the cutout under the throat plate when reinstalling it.

My recommendation would be not to obsess over the exact maximum stitch length for now. Just get the machine sewing as well as you can. Then you can fine tune things one step at a time.

One candidate may be the eccentric that generates the feed movement - it may not be perfectly "centered". Normally, when the hook is in hook-timing position, moving the reverse lever should NOT move the needle at all. I had one machine recently where that was the problem. I had to rotate the feed eccentric on the main shaft to center it with the hook timing position. 

I'm leaving on a camping trip shortly, so I may be offline for a while

 

Edited September 17, 2020 by Uwe

[hugocrafts]

@Uwe I took a measurement with a caliper and it's moving about 5.7-5.9 mm. It's a little frustrating, but overall, the machine is sewing great however. Regarding the eccentric, when the needle is at BDC, flipping the lever to reverse, the feed and needle they don't move at all, so that seems okay. While inspecting, I saw that the safety clutch on this machine is missing. Then, doubts started to creep in about the service history of this machine, like If the brass plate truly belongs to this sewing machine or maybe someone has possibly swapped it with another model of Pfaff, or perhaps the machine is not adjusted properly. I checked the lift height of the machine and I can confirm is H3 with fabric clearance of 11 mm. I don't know what else should I check to confirm any doubts.

Another 2 things: I have a feeling like the walking foot i.e. the alternating presser needs some re-adjustment and synchronization with the needle, because they don't arrive at the needle plate at the same time (if you can take a look at the video for one more time to judge and advise on that also). And last but not least, the pin (part no. 91-013 139-05 on the diagram below that releases the tension of the discs in the tension assembly unit is missing. By any chance, do you know the diameter and the length of this pin If I could fabricate and make it on my own perhaps, because its function is pretty basic i.e. just releasing the tension?

Thank you @Uwe, and have fun camping.

Hugo

 

 that releases the disc in the tension assembly is missing 

Edited September 17, 2020 by hugocrafts

[hugocrafts]

@Uwe, I think I did not read carefully what you pointed me with your last post so I answered about the position of the needle at BDC instead of the hook in hook-timing position. And If that's the case, then, thanks to you, it seems I found the culprit. When the hook is in hook-timing position moving the reverse lever up IT DOES move the needle in my case. Here below is a close-up video of the situation.

Please confirm for sure If that's the main cause, and advise on what steps should I take to remedy this situation, Uwe?

My best regards,

Hugo

 

Edited September 18, 2020 by hugocrafts

[Uwe]

I looked for more info on this. As it turns out, the correct needle position for no movement when flipping reverse lever is neither BDC nor hook-timing position - it's in between.

The manual linked below contains some service instructions at the end:

Pfaff 145 545 User Manual.pdf

The screenshot below shows the relevant feed driving section from that manual

 

The feed driving eccentric is shown this picture. You can loosen both set screws and rotate the eccentric on the main shaft to adjust the timing of the feed driving motion. Your non-P machine will not have the eccentric on the left, which controls lifting motion of the feed dog.

 

This video goes over how the walking foot lifting motion should be adjusted. Yours looks pretty good as it is:

 

[hugocrafts]

@Uwe, I just checked again as you suggested for the correct needle position for no movement i.e. between the BDC and the hook timing position and yes, the needle still moves, I measured this movement of the needle dog and It moves about 2 mm. So, If so far the maximum stitch length was 6 mm, I guess this tiny movement of the needle of about 2 mm is that lost maximum stitch length, If I guess right? So, I'll have to play with the eccentric to make it just right. Do you perhaps have a video on how to adjust the feed driving eccentric on some of the Pfaff models?

Looking at the photo you attached, yep, that connecting rod on the left is missing on my model. You mentioned also this before that the letter 'P' was missing on this subclass. Now, I'm wondering, how that's gonna affect the performance on this machine? I mean, is the difference so noticeable between CLMN and CPLMN? Will it shift the material badly? And, If It's that noticeable, then maybe I could get another one, I remember the seller also had a Consew 225 and Singers from the 111W and 111G class. Do these (Consew 225, Singers 111W, 111G) have a '4 motion feed' and perform better than this one that I already bought?

Edited September 19, 2020 by hugocrafts

[Wizcrafts]

8 hours ago, hugocrafts said:

I remember the seller also had a Consew 225 and Singers from the 111W and 111G class. Do these (Consew 225, Singers 111W, 111G) have a '4 motion feed' and perform better than this one that I already bought?

These all have 4 motion feed dogs. This is also known as drop feed and it is pretty much the standard feed system in both walking foot and straight stitch machines. Sliding feed is non-standard and is only useful on binder machines. Otherwise, it is an impediment in my opinion. Those who already have such machines either learn to make do with the sliding feeder or sell them off and buy a 4 motion feeder machine.

 

[Uwe]

If I had to choose between 4-motion feed dog and reverse, I’d go with reverse, but that’s just me. Consew 225 and Singer 111W155 class machines are nearly identical designs and, in my opinion,  not really an upgrade to the Pfaff 545 you already have.

Yes, 4-motion feed dog is nice to have but lack of it is not the end of the world in my book. Depending on your projects, you may never even notice that the feed dog isn’t dropping down. You likely WILL notice if the machine doesn’t have reverse when it comes time to lock stitches. You may also notice not being able to change stitch length without removing the material.

Lots of people happily use sliding feed dog machines like the Pfaff 335 and Adler 69 class of cylinder arm machines for all manner of projects that don’t involve binding. Many users are surprised to learn that the feed dog doesn’t drop down on those machines. The only time my Pfaff 335 really gave me trouble feeding material due to the feed dog movement was while sewing a multilayer project that had “steps” on the bottom, which the sliding feed dog would snag on. Of course lots of people also happily use machines that don’t have reverse and they may never need to change stitch length mid-project.

Exactly which features are important to you is a matter of experience and personal preference. I’d recommend getting the machine you already have working nicely and just start sewing with it. That’s the only way to really find out if the sliding feed dog interferes with your projects.

Don’t get hung up on precise stitch length and feed dog movement. 

You can always upgrade later on and you’ll likely make much better informed decisions after gaining some hands-on sewing experience with a really nice machine.

Edited September 19, 2020 by Uwe

[hugocrafts]

@Uwe, Well, I'm keeping this Pfaff, but I'm getting another one preferably with reverse, so later on, I could sell one If it does not suit my needs anyway. In that case, Consew 225 is out of the game because it does not have reverse. So, I guess the choice will be made from the class 111G beause 111W seemed they didn't have reverse too? What's the difference between 111W and 111G classes anyway? Are the 111G machines an updated version of 111W with just a reverse lever and the rest is basically the same as 111W? Are their parts interchangeable including the Consew? They seem all the same to me with that bump and in many other aspects, I don't know If there's any difference internally? Also, what is the difference between the models after the letters G or W such as 155 and 156? Is it the bobbin size only?

@Wizcrafts Thanks for the feedback. Which one suits the best in the 111G class? 155, 156 or?

Edited September 19, 2020 by hugocrafts

[Uwe]

The letter in the Singer model names indicates which factory the machine was produced at. You can find more information on that here. There are scores of discussion topics on the Singer 111 class of machine here on LW. The Singer 111 class has at least a dozen different sub models, with the Singer 111W155 being the most popular among leather workers for various reasons.

It’s best to continue Singer related discussions in a separate topic - this topic is about the Pfaff 545.

[hugocrafts]

@Uwe Yes. Let's get to Pfaff 545. Regarding the Pfaff,  mostly my girlfriend is going to use it generally for re-upholstering some sofa cushions. Probably like 5-6 layers of vinyl or leather, 1 mm each thick or something like that. I guess the lack of the letter 'P' i.e. the '4 motion feed' mechanism won't be that noticeable for this kind of purpose without shifting material as I understood you well in your previous post, right?

Edited September 20, 2020 by hugocrafts

[Wizcrafts]

The Singer 111W156 and 211G156 have reverse. I have a 211G156. It gets 5 stitches per inch in both directions and the holes match.

[hugocrafts]

@Uwe Back to the other problem. I'm having this other problem with the tension release on this 545. The tension release rod was missing and also a little spring on the back is missing as well. I fabricated the tension release rod that goes from the front through the back of the machine which I found out to be 60.5 mm in some of the Pfaff part books, but It does not work yet, because 1 of the 2 springs on the back is still missing. Now, here's the thing, the problem is, I don't know the exact position of where that little spring sits. I only know the location of the second spring because it's pretty obvious. Here's  the mechanism on the back. What do you think @Uwe ?

 

Edited September 20, 2020 by hugocrafts

[hugocrafts]

SOLVED! Regarding the maximum stitch length. Brass plate says N8, however I found out that the eccentric wheel has a part no. 91-009 633-92 equivalent to N (which stands for a maximum stitch length of 6 mm) or 9633 for short as it's stamped on the part, instead of part no. 91-102 007-92 or 2007 stamped on that eccentric wheel which is equivalent to N8. So, that's a quick update If anyone in the future will ever experience something like this.

Edited September 24, 2020 by hugocrafts

[Uwe]

The tension release mechanism is a bit complicated on the Pfaff because it allows several different configurations. I had to make a few parts including a custom spring to convert a machine that originally had pneumatic controls back to manual controls. I’m not sure this will really help you, but here’s what mine looked like:

 

This video shows my modification in action at the 7:40 mark:

 

Edited September 30, 2020 by Uwe

[Uwe]

Here’s a thread tension release mechanism on one of my (incomplete) Pfaff parts donor machines:

 

Edited September 30, 2020 by Uwe

[hugocrafts]

On 9/30/2020 at 8:24 PM, Uwe said:

Here’s a thread tension release mechanism on one of my (incomplete) Pfaff parts donor machines:

 

 

Hi, @Uwe. Thanks for the videos. Sorry, I've been off for a while due this pandemic chaos and now, I saw the reply. What is not clear to me, If inside there are 2 springs as shown in the Pfaff diagrams - 1 smaller and 1 larger? On my Pfaff, there's only 1 spring and when I pulled it, it broke in my hands, but the other one was missing?! If there are indeed 2 springs, how they should be sitting inside? The smaller one inside the bigger one or? And btw, now I noticed another problem If I could define it as such. I think the presser bar on my Pfaff is not genuine. I know you are a Pfaff guru, so please check it out the topic below and If you could be able to advise me on what to do, I'll be very thankful. Here's the link:

https://leatherworker.net/forum/topic/92953-pfaff-545-cant-fit-a-new-presser-foot-my-presser-bar-probably-not-genuine/

[abelincoln]

Wow... I for one just got an education about my machine. Time to go tune it instead of throw it off a cliff. I'm certain the timing eccentric is one of my issues.

[AKtrapper]

Thanks for all this information about the 545.  Mine is minus the "P" and has no vertical movement but I didn't even notice until recently.  I've owned the machine for nearly 15 years and used it to sew just about everything from jeans to heavy leather.  I've gotten quite an education from this post.