1760 - 1780 North Carolina - leather research

[Simeon54]

Hello all,

I am currently engaged as a leatherworker on a TV show set in North Carolina during the late 18th Century, specifically 1774  76.
I am looking for images of leatherwork from that period, mainly belts at the moment, but perhaps pouches of various kinds: powder, water, etc as well.

I'm having trouble on google as I tend to turn up reenactment sites, and whilst I'm sure they've had done good research I really can't use second hand work as a starting point.
 

Does anyone have any pointers for me? It doesn't have to necessarily be military based, but that would be of interest as well.

Thanks in advance.

[chuck123wapati]

1 hour ago, Simeon54 said:

Hello all,

I am currently engaged as a leatherworker on a TV show set in North Carolina during the late 18th Century, specifically 1774  76.
I am looking for images of leatherwork from that period, mainly belts at the moment, but perhaps pouches of various kinds: powder, water, etc as well.

I'm having trouble on google as I tend to turn up reenactment sites, and whilst I'm sure they've had done good research I really can't use second hand work as a starting point.
 

Does anyone have any pointers for me? It doesn't have to necessarily be military based, but that would be of interest as well.

Thanks in advance.

My suggestion would be to find out what European cultures settled in the area, back then they self segregated. with town ships being of mostly one culture or race of people. Pick your culture then go from there they only knew what they were taught and that knowledge was brought from Europe. People back then made and used what was used in their homelands with techniques brought from their homelands. Then study that cultures leatherwork.  https://dc.lib.unc.edu/cdm/ref/collection/ncmaps/id/736

Edited September 29, 2020 by chuck123wapati

[Simeon54]

6 minutes ago, chuck123wapati said:

My suggestion would be to find out what European cultures settled in the area, back then they self segregated. with town ships being of mostly one culture or race of people. Pick your culture then go from there they only knew what they were taught and that knowledge was brought from Europe. People back then made and used what was used in their homelands with techniques brought from their homelands. Then study that cultures leatherwork.  https://dc.lib.unc.edu/cdm/ref/collection/ncmaps/id/736

Many thanks for your response and that map is fantastic.
I am starting work in a TV show - Outlander - as the leatherworker, and the new season is set in 1776, North Carolina. Sadly, I currently have no other info from the design team and am awaiting that. But I'm going to go with Scottish, seeing as the show orginates in Scotland.

Again, thank you.

[chuck123wapati]

10 minutes ago, Simeon54 said:

Many thanks for your response and that map is fantastic.
I am starting work in a TV show - Outlander - as the leatherworker, and the new season is set in 1776, North Carolina. Sadly, I currently have no other info from the design team and am awaiting that. But I'm going to go with Scottish, seeing as the show orginates in Scotland.

Again, thank you.

np I don't know if Scotland was under English rule back then but have also read that in England the laws were so strict that leather work was highly regulated as to what a person could make and sell for example a cobbler could only make shoes, not saddles , gloves etc. So bringing that knowledge here would have been the same a cobbler wouldn't know how to make a saddle even if it was legal to do so.  I posted the links to some great books on another thread here. When i get a second i will find and repost the links if you want. 

[Simeon54]

4 minutes ago, chuck123wapati said:

np I don't know if Scotland was under English rule back then but have also read that in England the laws were so strict that leather work was highly regulated as to what a person could make and sell for example a cobbler could only make shoes, not saddles , gloves etc. So bringing that knowledge here would have been the same a cobbler wouldn't know how to make a saddle even if it was legal to do so.  I posted the links to some great books on another thread here. When i get a second i will find and repost the links if you want. 

That would be great, thank you.

And thanks again for this info

[Matt S]

@Simeon54 I think a lot would have to do with the history of the individuals depicted, as we're probably talking about recent immigration to a frontier colony. I appreciate that you might be bound by a NDA but that time period (and the previous seasons of Outlander) would hint at the early Highland Clearances so you might be well advised to look at extant examples and reconstructions of leatherwork from that region, culture and time period and extrapolate those findings through the character's journey, the expected lifespan of any items they may be carrying, and what they may have picked up in the New World to replace or supplement what they brought with them. AFAIK Scotland was never really touched by the strict English guild system, and that had largely fallen out of legal enforceability by the 18th century anyway. Chuck's point that a Scottish cobbler wouldn't know how to make a saddle does stand, but more for technical or experiential reasons rather than gatekeeping (much as a village blacksmith wouldn't know how to make a sword or breastplate).

I have a background in archaeology as well as leatherwork and would be happy to discuss things over PM or email if you like. I might be able to dig out some reference books.

[Simeon54]

2 minutes ago, Matt S said:

I appreciate that you might be bound by a NDA...

Yup, I am. :-)

But thank you for your response, it's greatly appreciated. When I know more about specifics, then that will help but I literally have a time and a region and that is it: no character, or even trade/social standing, etc.
I'll drop you a PM in a day or two when I have a bit more info from my supervisor.

[fredk]

The Scots never had the Guilds that England had.

Look also to the Ulster-Scots of that era. A great many of the Scots who went to the North American Colonies did not go direct from Scotland but from Ulster. The Scots settlers in Ulster, from approx 1605 to 1845 were known as the New Scots. They were, and still are, very Scottish in speech, habit and tradition.

The point of a cobbler not knowing how to make a saddle is not true in this case. Scots, Ulster-Scots, and Ulster-Irish could, did and still do, turn their hand to whatever is required by their community. The blacksmiths would make knives, swords, shears, pikes as soon as make farm gate fittings. The farrier would make his own horse/ass/donkey shoes and fit them - they are not made by blacksmiths. Leatherworkers, even up to the 1970s, made shoes, horse tack, school bags, brief cases, and more.

[JHLeatherwood]

4 minutes ago, Simeon54 said:

Yup, I am. :-)

But thank you for your response, it's greatly appreciated. When I know more about specifics, then that will help but I literally have a time and a region and that is it: no character, or even trade/social standing, etc.
I'll drop you a PM in a day or two when I have a bit more info from my supervisor.

Congrats on landing a great gig!

I don't know if you have access to Diana Gabaldon (through the showrunner?) but she is legendary among historical fiction community for doing extensive research - I'd bet she has notes and sources that would help, and would (obviously) be germane to the show. 

There's a leatherworker at the museum in Landis Valley who offers classes in 18th century leather work: https://www.landisvalleymuseum.org/event/leatherworking-class-at-landis-valley-5/

And for a great long shot, try reddit.com/r/askhistorians - it's a very moderated Q&A forum that requires primary research and citations. 

This individual has several answers about 18th century clothing and shoes, many with sources. I don't know if they're still active but you could private message them via reddit:
https://www.reddit.com/user/colevintage/

Keith Burgess has a video series on making an 18th century Welsh drag cart and many other leather goods - might be a lead to some original research there, too.

 

Forgive me if you've already checked these out - what a great rabbit hole to fall into for a little bit.

[JHLeatherwood]

I really do need to get back to my day job, but the gutenberg project has many, many, many old books (even though some of them have recent publication dates). I love digging into topics like this, especially when I can find a gem like this:
https://www.gutenberg.org/files/58293/58293-h/58293-h.htm

 

[billybopp]

I believe I would consider contacting the folks at Colonial Williamsburg.  They specialize in that era, have leatherworking apprenticeship programs, and are noted for their research on the era.  It's a good bet that if you can get in contact with their research folks there they will be happy to provide any information that they can for you.  I do not know if your setting is more frontier or more East Coast city.  They type of leather work would likely be a bit different for each, but again it's worth a try to contact them.  https://www.colonialwilliamsburg.org/

-Bill

[JHLeatherwood]

Please don't tell my boss what I've been doing this morning, but ...

Published in 1896, and available for free via the Gutenberg project, the Manual of Mending and Repairing has a section on leather:

https://www.gutenberg.org/files/61786/61786-h/61786-h.htm#REPAIRING_LEATHER-WORK

 

[chuck123wapati]

 

https://www.ncmuseumofhistory.org/learning/educators/timelines/eighteenth-century-north-carolina-timeline

[Simeon54]

Many thanks to you all for your responses!
I hope of course that others can use these links as well.

4 hours ago, billybopp said:

I believe I would consider contacting the folks at Colonial Williamsburg.  They specialize in that era, have leatherworking apprenticeship programs, and are noted for their research on the era.  It's a good bet that if you can get in contact with their research folks there they will be happy to provide any information that they can for you.  I do not know if your setting is more frontier or more East Coast city.  They type of leather work would likely be a bit different for each, but again it's worth a try to contact them.  https://www.colonialwilliamsburg.org/

-Bill

Many thanks Bill, i think I'll drop them a line and see what they can help me with.

[chrisash]

You may find that the UK's British Museum will have the information you require, it basically covers everywhere the empire covered plus more. also the UK regiments often have museum's and locals at the time may well have used discarded military items 

Reference from the UK show

In the 1700s, taxes were being imposed on ads created by the government; however this did not stop businesses from creating adverts and promoting their goods/ services.  In London, for example, an impressive 24% to 75% of newspaper content was actually in the form of adverts. This created a huge amount of income for both the newspapers and the businesses advertising.

Maybe also covered by local newspapers in the US at that time

[Simeon54]

On 9/30/2020 at 10:50 AM, chrisash said:

You may find that the UK's British Museum will have the information you require, it basically covers everywhere the empire covered plus more. also the UK regiments often have museum's and locals at the time may well have used discarded military items 

Reference from the UK show

In the 1700s, taxes were being imposed on ads created by the government; however this did not stop businesses from creating adverts and promoting their goods/ services.  In London, for example, an impressive 24% to 75% of newspaper content was actually in the form of adverts. This created a huge amount of income for both the newspapers and the businesses advertising.

Maybe also covered by local newspapers in the US at that time

Thank you Chrisash