Dye rub off on saddle?

[Azalea]

Hi guys, new member here. I don't consider myself a leather worker compared to what I've seen, I'm just a horse rider who is learning to care for and dye leather tack, which I really enjoy! I have only dyed 2 saddles so far but I seem to have had the same problem with them both. The process that I used for the first saddle I dyed was clean using saddle soap, deglaze using acetone, oil with Neatsfoot (possibly oiled too much this first time), apply 1 coat of Fiebing's Pro Oil dye in black, apply 2nd coat of dye, buff, and apply multiple coats of resolene. It turned out beautiful, but I stupidly didn't try buffing after resolene as I trusted it would lock the dye in. I then rode in the saddle a couple of times and assumed no dye came off (I was wearing black trousers so couldn't tell anyway) but I believe the 3rd time riding in the saddle I wore some light coloured trousers, which is when I noticed dye rubbed off on every single part of the saddle where I came in to contact with it. Now, there are a few things that I thought might have caused this, such as applying too much oil before the dye, applying the dye too heavy, not buffing enough afterwards, not applying enough resolene etc. so I bought another saddle and dyed it. I used all the same products, but this time I left much longer in between each step (over 24 hours), applied less oil and dye, buffed more and then wiped with denatured alcohol to get rid of any excess and applied multiple coats of resolene (50/50 mix with water, probably 10 coats?). I noticed this time that after a few coats of resolene, I started to get these weird foggy blotches under the top coat and eventually started to get rough patches where the resolene was just rubbing off. I tried buffing and realised the spots and patches are all dye under the top coat that has been lifted to the surface. I've buffed the saddle in between each step and every single time I still get dye rub off which will obviously be an issue as I will come in to contact with the saddle everytime I use it. From what I've seen online, everyone suggests resolene but I can't seem to make it work so well for me. I have some beeswax conditrioner that I plan on putting on afterwards but I dont have much hope. I'm also going to have to deglaze the seat and redo the resolene due to the weird spots...

Sorry for the rambling, I'm just feeling a bit disheartened as the saddles look beautiful, but they're impractical if they keep leaking dye! Am I using the wrong process? Is there a better dye suited to this? 

Thanks guys

[Handstitched]

G'Day, welcome to the forum  

I have re-coloured  saddles in the past, like the one in the pic. I didn't use acetone , a bit too harsh IMO ,  saddle soap  was enough . I let dry over night . I used a water based dye, ( dk brown in this case, and saddle tan on the inside flap)  that has a little bit of alcohol for drying purposes.  I have tried oil based dyes in the past , without much luck, and with the same issues you have now. 

I let dry completely , I buffed with a soft cloth,  then applied a few coats of  (Aussie brand)  leather/saddle  conditioner , that has carnauba  and natural waxes  in it,   buffing /polishing between coats, and thats it . No dye rubbing off . 

I could have used N/F oil, but that could make it darker. The one thing I learnt when I was riding horses when I was a wee lad  , is that some petroleum based conditioners  can rot the stitching . 

Good luck  

HS 

[Rahere]

I'm not certain resolene's wise here. A saddle's deliberately organic, living between hot sweaty horse and hot sweaty human, and a working saddle will pick up water. This is why it's racked, to air, afterwards.

If your dressings are organic, they'll go with it. But acrylic resolene? No. The deeper layers may cause it to lose its keying.

It's all about adhesion. If you put a blob of acrylic on a glazed surface, you give a fairish lip to lever on and it'll peel away eventually, because it's only gripping by a very few factors, mostly vacuum. Applying it to something lightly sanded, scuffed up, and it's got mechanical grip too. However, if it's sprayed on in a number of light layers, there's no clear edge. The grip's not any better, though.

[Azalea]

9 minutes ago, Rahere said:

I'm not certain resolene's wise here. A saddle's deliberately organic, living between hot sweaty horse and hot sweaty human, and a working saddle will pick up water. This is why it's racked, to air, afterwards.

If your dressings are organic, they'll go with it. But acrylic resolene? No. The deeper layers may cause it to lose its keying.

It's all about adhesion. If you put a blob of acrylic on a glazed surface, you give a fairish lip to lever on and it'll peel away eventually, because it's only gripping by a very few factors, mostly vacuum. Applying it to something lightly sanded, scuffed up, and it's got mechanical grip too. However, if it's sprayed on in a number of light layers, there's no clear edge. The grip's not any better, though.

Resolene is what is used by saddle manufacturers to give saddles the serious shine when they're brand new, I've spoken to a few master saddlers who recommended it and use it themselves, thats why I did it myself

That is also why they recommended acetone to deglaze, as it breaks down the previous acrylic top coat so that you can penetrate the leather with dye, and then re seal 

26 minutes ago, Handstitched said:

G'Day, welcome to the forum  

I have re-coloured  saddles in the past, like the one in the pic. I didn't use acetone , a bit too harsh IMO ,  saddle soap  was enough . I let dry over night . I used a water based dye, ( dk brown in this case, and saddle tan on the inside flap)  that has a little bit of alcohol for drying purposes.  I have tried oil based dyes in the past , without much luck, and with the same issues you have now. 

I let dry completely , I buffed with a soft cloth,  then applied a few coats of  (Aussie brand)  leather/saddle  conditioner , that has carnauba  and natural waxes  in it,   buffing /polishing between coats, and thats it . No dye rubbing off . 

I could have used N/F oil, but that could make it darker. The one thing I learnt when I was riding horses when I was a wee lad  , is that some petroleum based conditioners  can rot the stitching . 

Good luck  

HS 

Beautiful job! I am wondering whether I should be using Fiebing's regular dye as oppose to the pro dye as it is oil based. It just seems impossible to buff off!

[tsunkasapa]

For the record, Black is the absolute worst for bleeding forever and a day. It seems to do it no matter what finish is put on it.

Edited February 24, 2021 by tsunkasapa

[Azalea]

5 hours ago, tsunkasapa said:

For the record, Black is the absolute worst for bleeding forever and a day. It seems to do it no matter what finish is put on it.

Ah okay, so this may just be a persistent issue?

[tsunkasapa]

For quite some time to come I fear.

[Scootch]

I carry a pancake trapper sheeth, that I dyed black, for about the last year.  It still transfers black to any belt I put it on after about 4 wearings.  I've started playing with air brushing some.  You can get good deep dyeing with much less dye by spraying.  Maybe less dye would help if you try it again.

Scootch

[Azalea]

Thanks guys. Thinking back now, too much dye definitely could have been an issue as I was recommended to do 2 coats, although I was satisfied with the first one. I’ll play around with a few things and update if I think I’ve figured it out :)

[Handstitched]

On 2/24/2021 at 10:33 PM, tsunkasapa said:

For the record, Black is the absolute worst for bleeding forever and a day.

I had the exact same issue with Raven oil dyes. I made myself a nice belt, my very first one ever , way back when..... nicely carved etc. to go with a fancy ex$y pair of light coloured jeans.  I used Raven Oil brown and sealed it . O'h boy did it bleed !!! I sealed it, it bled,  and I sealed it...*repeat* , it still bled on my nice jeans . Haven't lived it down since   I use water based dyes now. No issues at all. 

HS