What machine?

[PeterHarvey]

Hi all, 

Firstly let me apologise as I'm sure this question has come up countless times, but after searching through the topics and forums I haven't been able to find the answer I'm looking for. Basically, I'm a total beginner and want to make a pair of boots myself as leather work would be a great new hobby to have and unfortunately I don't have £1,000.00 spare for a pair of boots.

My question is, for the boots pictured, is there a machine I could get off the shelf without any mods to motors etc... to see the upper parts together? I was tempted to try by hand but feel this would be a futile effort, especially with my lack of knowledge and experience. Again, I'm very sorry and do apologise as I'm sure the 'what machine' question has been answered, I'm just getting a bit overwhelmed searching through existing threads (no pun intended)

I can't see I would ever be stitching anything thicker than pictured, so again, it's there a really available (affordable) machine to do the job?

Peter

[stelmackr]

Quick answer--no. 

Just for grins I did a search for those John Varvatos triple buckle boots and found them in many places from $500 to $1,500.  Now to reproduce those boots without any leather experience and no tools, no sewing machine, no leather, no pattern and no experience would be impossible for the £1,000.00 you don't have.

Don't stop dreaming.  Start looking for boot patterns, pricing leather, and use YouTube to look at videos on boot making (see the tools and techniques needed) and educate yourself.  Start by searching for how to make them.

[PeterHarvey]

Hahaha I know what you mean, I'm aiming high for a beginner. I've done quite a bit of research on patterns and making, also been lucky to find a pair of size 44 wooden lasts for less than £10 so I'm on the right track. I've done a quick for model on plaster to try starting some leather patterns and I think I've got a good idea of materials needed, the outer layer I can get 2m sq of decent quality calf veg tan leather for a decent price, and have got some (cheapish) starter tools to see how I get on. I'm hoping, especially with current lock down situation that I'll enjoy the challenge, and if successful I'll try making a guitar strap for myself and might never have to buy shoes again... (joking)

YouTube has been great for ideas and my partner is probably on despair at the hours of shoe/bootmaking videos I've been watching, am enjoying the experience so far tho.

Peter

[Aven]

Yes, there are machines that will sew the uppers without modification.  The tricky bit for you is finding a used one that is still in decent condition that you can afford.  I don't know what the market is like across the pond, but if you aren't in a hurry and you are lucky, you will find a post bed machine that will suit your needs.

In the mean time, it is possible to sew them by hand, but you have a lot of hurdles to jump before you can even begin.  You will need a last.  There are several last makers out there and the last time I check, granted it was a while ago, lasts are still showing up on eBay.  You will need to modify the last to match your feet measurements.  Then the fun begins.  You have to come up with the pattern and the devil is in the details. You might have to do two patterns if your feet are different sizes.  There are a couple of books you ought to track down.  Shoe & Boot Designing Manual by George Koleff , oh and look for his videos.  Bespoke Shoemaking by Tim Skyrme.  His website is shoemakingbook.com.  He also has several videos that are worth the watch.

Checkout KenJwan's posts.  He has made four pairs of engineer's boots.

And you might want to check out Jason Hovatter's video on making your own work boots.  He has a different approach, which I think might help you figuring out how to go about making yours.  https://laughingcrowe.com/videos/make-your-own-work-boots/

[PeterHarvey]

Ahh brilliant thanks for all the links and bits. I've got a pair of wooden lasts due next week for only £9.50 on ebay, what a bargain!!! Hopefully they won't need much modifying. I'll check out the videos and have a look for the book you suggested. That's the biggest spender finding the right 2nd hand machine, the good news is, my gf used to make a lot of her own clothes and done textiles at college so hopefully we'll both get some use out of one.

I just have no idea what machine spec to look for, and again with no experience it's a tad overwhelming looking through previous posts... hopefully continued research will enlighten me.

Peter

[Aven]

A post bed machine with a roller foot will work nicely for the uppers, but you can use a flat bed as well.  The post makes it easier to sew 3d curves.  I don't know models and brands.  Dig through the sewing machine section and you should find what you are looking for in there.  If not, ask in that section.

You are going to need to learn how to skive.  Lisa Sorrel has two videos on skiving that are a much watch. 

 

Here's her video on sewing boot tops.  Totally different style, but the concept is the same.

 

[Aven]

I just found Vicky's videos.  Check these out.

 

 

[Aven]

Oh, one more book for you.  Pattern Cutting by Frank Jones.  I found it here, but you might find it cheaper somewhere else.

[PeterHarvey]

Aven,

Thanks so much for the bits you've posted, it's great to get relevant advice and pick up tips, especially if it stops me slicing my thumb off!!! I'll keep researching and keep y'all updated with any progress. 

Peter

 

[Aven]

Peter, if your knife is as sharp as it should be, you won't know it happened until you see all the blood drops all over what you are working on at the moment.  I speak from experience.  Probably should have gone in for stitches, but the butterfly bandages worked.  Which reminds me, make sure you have a decent first aide kit handy in the shop that you can get to quickly and open one handed.  Its saves time and making a bigger mess.  I also keep a clean rag at the back of my bench so I can grab it and quickly wrap up whatever I sliced while I'm getting a plaster out. 

I'm happy to share what very little I know.  Besides it's much more enjoyable than pulling up the floor in the bathroom because its rotten.  The joys of buying an old house.

Oh, and one more thing.  I don't know how restricted you are with the lockdown, but look around for a cobbler in your neighborhood, hopefully you don't have to go as far south as London to find one.  But anyway, if you find one that is willing to have a chat with you, ask them about machines, where to buy them, where to get them serviced, and so on.  And you can always ask around the pub to see if someone has an old sewing machine that will work for you or knows someone who might know someone who does.

I'm looking forward to your progress.  I live vicariously at the moment.  My shop is in boxes, waiting for the new place to be finished.  But the house comes first, especially the bathroom.

Aven

Edited February 25, 2021 by Aven

[Matt S]

@PeterHarvey Welcome to the forum and the craft. There's nothing quite like having a goal!

There's no lack of surplus industrial machines in the UK that will sew boot uppers available for under a grand. The snag is knowing what you're looking at, fixing it up and how to use it. Off the shelf new, you might just about get a Chinese machine. If you'll accept used machines you can probably get a walking foot flat-bed from a dealer for under a grand. However you may not be able to sew a set of uppers on a single machine, as industrials tend to do one thing well per model. You might do the majority of the seams on a flat-bed, then need to do the heels on a zig-zag, the uppers turned right side out and a few more seams with a post-bed where the flat-bed can no longer reach.

Machine sewing is not an unskilled task, and it takes time and practice to get acceptable results. I always suggest that people new to the craft learn to hand sew first, as it eliminates a big chunk of complicatedness. Everything was hand sewn before 1850 so it's not impossible!

Have you considered how you'll sew the uppers to the welts or insole, and the welts to the outsole? Each of those is a specialist task that either requires hard hand work or a dedicated machine. Your local cobbler may have an insole (Blake) and outsole stitcher and might be willing to do those jobs for you.

Oh and from experience you might want to look elsewhere for the uppers. Veg tan is inherently sensitive to water/moisture. It becomes mouldable when wet and dries hard. I've got a pair of very comfortable jump boots that are basically unusable because they have veg tanned uppers.

Best of luck with your endeavours. This is one of the best places on the interwebs to learn. Please do be aware though that you will be spending far more than £1000 to replicate that pair of boots when you take into account materials and tools and time. A lot of us got into this game thinking "How much for a belt? I could do it for less if I just had a piece of leather and a few tools..."

[PeterHarvey]

@Matt S Fortunately at the moment, time for me is in abundance, especially as now have an office at home so I'm well set to take my time with this. My plan is to sew the uppers and inners to the sole as in attached pic, will definitely be stitching the soles by hand. As I've got so much time to put into this I might buy some scraps and see how I get on stitching the uppers together by hand. I've checked and unfortunately there's no pros near by, closest is in London and with current rules that's a no go. But again, I'm determined to put maximum time into the project, hopefully it'll be fun, a great learning experience and also productive.

Any tips on a better leather to use for uppers? I guess needs to be tough but be able to look slightly worn, aged.

@Aven I can relate to the mouldy floor, we moved 2 years ago and the bathroom floor was cork, the smell was not great so that was one of the first things to go... Best of luck with your new home and hopefully you'll be all set up again in no time.

Ps, I've got a big box of plasters as I'm terrible with a coping knife!!!

[PeterHarvey]

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/313431976633

There's quite a few machines like these about

[Aven]

Peter, thanks for the well wishes.  All of the rotten subfloor is up.  Tomorrow I'll block out the pipes and put the new subfloor down and then on to the hard bit, deciding on new flooring. 

I hope you check out Jason's video on internal stitch down boots.  I think it will help you with the whole process, minus using a last.  But, it's still chuck full of useful information for a low tech shop.  His classes are setup so that you can make shoes with just hand tools. I have his video and have been to his classes.  The video is worth the money.

S B Foot leather tannery makes leather for Red Wing Boots.  I know it isn't local for you, but you can look around, check out their descriptions and see what you can find that's similar over there.

https://www.oaleathersupply.com/collections/s-b-foot-tanning-co

[PeterHarvey]

@Aven I'll take a look thanks for the link! I watched Jason's video, makes it look so easy... think I've got a lot of work ahead of me. I might even try making a pair hopefully I'll get a similar result. 

Found a great video on YouTube for stitching tips, 

Have ordered some cheap scraps so I'm gonna do a lot of practise and might not need a machine at all. 

Peter

[Rahere]

Given you're not far away, go talk to Batchelors leather on Culford Mews, Balls Pond Road, Dalston, and ask about their customer workshop.

Next up, talk to icanmakeshoes, not least because they deal in retail Texon - suppliers in Northampton are strictly wholesale.

Sveta Letina on Youtube can cover the ground for nowt.

[PeterHarvey]

@Rahere it's hidden gems like that that get missed by Google searches, great find, will have to make a visit when we're allowed to go out again

[Rahere]

They're not interested in search engine optimization, they've all the business they can handle from reputation. While you're in the neighbourhood, search out William Gee on the Kingsland Road for haberdashery/thread, and Dalston Mill Fabrics at the far end of Ridley Road for fabrics. This is why the first edition of the Great British Sewing Bee was on the Balls Pond Road, it's the secret home of Central St Martins practice - and you don't get higher than young Ella, the US VP's stepdaughter, who's in and out of there.

Sveta Kletina, sorry.

And I should mention LeProvo for leather and findings, in Newcastle.

Edited February 26, 2021 by Rahere

[toxo]

On 2/26/2021 at 7:49 AM, PeterHarvey said:

@Rahere it's hidden gems like that that get missed by Google searches, great find, will have to make a visit when we're allowed to go out again

It is indeed a gem. I was there on Thursday.

[PeterHarvey]

@toxo oh wow is at open at the moment? Would be great to be able to look at tools and materials other than on Google

[toxo]

1 hour ago, PeterHarvey said:

@toxo oh wow is at open at the moment? Would be great to be able to look at tools and materials other than on Google

It's very informal and it's not very big. You had best give them a call first cos they do get busy. The best plan of action is to compile a list of what you want and be as specific as you can then call them with your order. That way at the very least you can visit to pick up your order at the door and if they're not busy you can go in.

[Rahere]

1 hour ago, toxo said:

It's very informal and it's not very big. You had best give them a call first cos they do get busy. The best plan of action is to compile a list of what you want and be as specific as you can then call them with your order. That way at the very least you can visit to pick up your order at the door and if they're not busy you can go in.

You're not looking for a shop, but a biggish garage, on the north side of the mews.

[toxo]

https://www.google.com/search?q=JT+Batchelor+leather&rlz=1C1AOHY_enGB783GB783&tbm=isch&source=iu&ictx=1&fir=NvtTp0b1ocuDYM%2CSLbLoaM0-dbY9M%2C_&vet=1&usg=K_OPrkLF6k6x92-LIjXGEBFF2CmCU%3D&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjJ7ODB4orvAhU4TRUIHfsXAY0QuqIBMAp6BAgXEAM&biw=1600&bih=813#imgrc=NvtTp0b1ocuDYM