First sewing machine

[kgg]

13 hours ago, dikman said:

When you can find a knob-control unit they are expensive!

Funny how things differ.

kgg

[chrisash]

There should be a good market for largen broken machine handwheels but you seldom see them advertised

Just did a quick check on Ebay.com and far more brushless servos; than the brushed ones but prices seemed to be about the same apart from some very low Enduro motors at $30 

sewing machine servo motor | eBay

[BelleH]

Hanns - Just wondering what you decided to do about a machine.  Did you purchase one?  I too am on the hunt and I see that your original requirements/wants are similar to mine so thought I'd ask for an update on your search and/or purchase.  Thanks!

 

[hanns]

On 4/12/2021 at 4:41 PM, BelleH said:

Hanns - Just wondering what you decided to do about a machine.  Did you purchase one?  I too am on the hunt and I see that your original requirements/wants are similar to mine so thought I'd ask for an update on your search and/or purchase.  Thanks!

I ended up going with the Thor GC1541S-SRG package from Sunny Sewing Machines. It's a 1541S clone with dual tensioners (similar to the 1508) and a top-mounted foot height adjustment knob like the 1541-7. This particular kit also comes set up with a 550W brushed servo (the same one that comes standard on a lot of machines) and a speed reducer. The main reason I chose this machine over the name brand Juki is because it is specced to support larger thread sizes. Spec says TEX 270. I was skeptical, but I've now tried it myself and it works beautifully for my purposes, albeit with limited bobbin capacity for such a thick thread. Tonight I'm going to slap a 45mm pulley on the motor (comes with a 75mm by default) and see if I can get the speed down a little more.

Also, my dealings with Sunny Sewing Machines have been positive. The first machine they shipped was dropped in transit. I took pictures, rejected the shipment, and Sunny sent a replacement a few days later. They've been very responsive, and I was supported even after the sale when things went wrong.

This machine (and probably any of the 1541 type machines I'd imagine), does *amazingly well* for my purposes. It goes through two layers of 8-10 oz bridle leather like it's not even there. Bridle + layers of chrome tan? No problem. I've experimented with a bunch of needles and the Organ NW leather needles (and probably others) give the stitches a nice slant very reminiscent of saddle stitching. I'm very happy with it so far.

I've attached some photos of different tests so you can see what I mean. One is 8-10 oz bridle + 2 layers of 4 oz deer. The other shows off the slant effect.

Edited April 15, 2021 by hanns
Add photos

[BelleH]

4 hours ago, hanns said:

I ended up going with the Thor GC1541S-SRG package from Sunny Sewing Machines. 

Thank you very much for the information - including the detailed description and the pictures.  I'm in the early stages of my search and this helps a lot since it provides me information for comparing machines and also a "review" from someone that doesn't have a vested interest in selling a machine.

[hanns]

28 minutes ago, BelleH said:

Thank you very much for the information - including the detailed description and the pictures.  I'm in the early stages of my search and this helps a lot since it provides me information for comparing machines and also a "review" from someone that doesn't have a vested interest in selling a machine.

Glad to help. A little more info:

1. This type of motor has a brake which makes operating the hand wheel a pain. The brake pad is easy to remove, but I found that the speed reducer adds quite a lot of momentum to the system and the brake is helpful to get the machine to stop quickly. To get around this, I found that there's a small "gap" between when the brake disengages and when the motor starts turning, so if I carefully push the pedal a bit, I can turn the hand wheel no problem. Just have to be very careful. I'd still like to know if the speed reducer could be avoided entirely with a small pulley + low speed brushless setup.
2. I put the smaller 45mm pulley on the motor tonight and although I don't have a speed tester, I'm pretty sure I can get below 1 stitch per second now with light pressure on the pedal. It was a $15 upgrade ($10 for pulley and $5 for a slightly smaller drive belt). It's also easy to do, so I'd recommend it if you want to go slower.

Good luck in your search. It's not the easiest thing to shop for.

[Wizcrafts]

17 minutes ago, hanns said:

Glad to help. A little more info:

1. This type of motor has a brake which makes operating the hand wheel a pain. The brake pad is easy to remove, but I found that the speed reducer adds quite a lot of momentum to the system and the brake is helpful to get the machine to stop quickly. To get around this, I found that there's a small "gap" between when the brake disengages and when the motor starts turning, so if I carefully push the pedal a bit, I can turn the hand wheel no problem. Just have to be very careful. I'd still like to know if the speed reducer could be avoided entirely with a small pulley + low speed brushless setup.
2. I put the smaller 45mm pulley on the motor tonight and although I don't have a speed tester, I'm pretty sure I can get below 1 stitch per second now with light pressure on the pedal. It was a $15 upgrade ($10 for pulley and $5 for a slightly smaller drive belt). It's also easy to do, so I'd recommend it if you want to go slower.

Good luck in your search. It's not the easiest thing to shop for.

I run a Family Sew servo motor on several sewing machines. Some are direct drive and some go through reducers. It is definitely easier to feather in a direct connection than a reducer setup. I can also adjust the free motion a little, but not as much as with a clutch motor. I actually sanded down one of my brake pads to get more range of motion.

Since the size of the machine pulley varies, you don't always get a great speed reduction ratio from the motor. The worst ratios are on my Singer 211g156 and a Techsew 2700. They have smallish pulleys on the balance wheel and really need a reducer to get controllable slow speeds. These machines were expected to run at higher speeds.

[bj139]

I am thinking of buying a larger machine and am looking at a used Singer 211a1121k with the air foot lift or a Thor GC1541S for twice the price.  My current machine, a Mercury M-337, is limited to 3/8 inch foot lift.   I have a table and motor and am space limited so I can't have another table but can switch heads.  I should contact Keystone sewing about a Juki 1541 since I am about an hour away.  Which machine would be better?  The 211 has a foot lift of 1/2 inch and the Thor at 5/8".  Here is a video of my Mercury.  

 

[Wizcrafts]

2 hours ago, bj139 said:

I am thinking of buying a larger machine and am looking at a used Singer 211a1121k with the air foot lift or a Thor GC1541S for twice the price.  My current machine, a Mercury M-337, is limited to 3/8 inch foot lift.   I have a table and motor and am space limited so I can't have another table but can switch heads.  I should contact Keystone sewing about a Juki 1541 since I am about an hour away.  Which machine would be better?  The 211 has a foot lift of 1/2 inch and the Thor at 5/8".

There are a couple things you should know about those machines. First, they are all compound feed walking foot machines. Your Mercury is a dual (top and bottom) feed machine. Second, they may lift higher with the foot lifter, but are still limited to sewing 3/8 inch of material. Third, if you start sewing without holding back the starting threads, you will have an instant thread jam. In your video you started sewing without holding back the starting threads. Fourth, These machines have a normal upper limit of #138 bonded thread, top and bobbin. You may be able to get the Juki and Thor to sew with #207 on top, but not the Singer.

How thick do you need to actually sew? What materials will you be sewing at this thickness?

[bj139]

16 minutes ago, Wizcrafts said:

There are a couple things you should know about those machines. First, they are all compound feed walking foot machines. Your Mercury is a dual (top and bottom) feed machine. Second, they may lift higher with the foot lifter, but are still limited to sewing 3/8 inch of material. Third, if you start sewing without holding back the starting threads, you will have an instant thread jam. In your video you started sewing without holding back the starting threads. Fourth, These machines have a normal upper limit of #138 bonded thread, top and bobbin. You may be able to get the Juki and Thor to sew with #207 on top, but not the Singer.

How thick do you need to actually sew? What materials will you be sewing at this thickness?

I would like to sew 3/8 to 7/16 inch of nylon webbing.  I have my Mercury tension assembly set out so the tension is not released by the presser foot moving up but it is definitely overextended.  I do want to get a triple feed machine since I have never used one.  I tend to pin the needle thread to the needle plate with my left hand so I don't get the thread pulled out of the needle.  In my video, I had already backtacked so the threads were anchored.  I guess the used machine would have significant wear and could have a lot of problems.

Edited May 13, 2021 by bj139

[Wizcrafts]

9 hours ago, bj139 said:

I would like to sew 3/8 to 7/16 inch of nylon webbing.

You have a couple of options to sew 7/16 inch with a flat bed machine.

1. Juki LU-1508 NH (high lift version that accepts #207 thread out of the box).
2. Adler 696 ECO (Not a flat bed. Cylinder arm, sold by our advertiser, Weaver Leather)
3. Cobra Class 20 (sews up to 1/2 inch. Flat bed, 207 thread.)

[bj139]

14 hours ago, Wizcrafts said:

You have a couple of options to sew 7/16 inch with a flat bed machine.

1. Juki LU-1508 NH (high lift version that accepts #207 thread out of the box).
2. Adler 696 ECO (Not a flat bed. Cylinder arm, sold by our advertiser, Weaver Leather)
3. Cobra Class 20 (sews up to 1/2 inch. Flat bed, 207 thread.)

Those all seem above my budget.  I don't have a business, just sew things for myself.  I was thinking I could spend about $1500 max.  

[Wizcrafts]

2 hours ago, bj139 said:

Those all seem above my budget.  I don't have a business, just sew things for myself.  I was thinking I could spend about $1500 max.  

$1500 will get you a Consew 206RB-5. It won't sew 7/16 inch out of the box, but it can use #207 thread top and bottom. The machine might could be altered to sew higher by a dealer.

[sbrownn]

I don't see why you need a flat bed machine.  

[bj139]

6 minutes ago, sbrownn said:

I don't see why you need a flat bed machine.  

I don't necessarily need a flatbed machine.  An auxiliary table on a cylinder arm would work fine and give me more options.  Any suggestions?

[sbrownn]

1 hour ago, bj139 said:

I don't necessarily need a flatbed machine.  An auxiliary table on a cylinder arm would work fine and give me more options.  Any suggestions?

Given your budget and the thickness you want to sew I would say a used Cowboy , Cobra or similar clone would be a good choice.

[bj139]

I did send an email to Greg at Keystone sewing back in May and got no reply.  i just found out today he passed away in March.  I understand now.  So sad.  His email address still shows up on the website.  Are they still in business?

[bj139]

I just called Keystone Sewing Machine Company to ask about a Juki and the message said they are on vacation until August 16 and will not be checking messages.