Stitching chisel

[ThreeLRanch]

Well I ordered a set from Springfield and got them today and I guess I was thinking that they might be just a little bigger , they look like they were made for kids or something so I’m sending them back. 
what are some good ones that I can get because I’ve looked and looked and it seems hard to find any that are in stock. 
I don’t mind spend some cash on them if need be , tried finding some Kevin Lee but only can find 20 teeth and I don’t really what that many. Any advise would be great on where to find some good quality ones. 

[Hardrada]

Get the best: KS Blade.

https://ksbladepunch.com/product-category/pricking-irons

[ThreeLRanch]

15 minutes ago, Hardrada said:

Get the best: KS Blade.

https://ksbladepunch.com/product-category/pricking-irons

All those are pricking irons not chisels , I got a set of pricking and they don’t do well in thicker leather. 

[Hardrada]

21 minutes ago, ThreeLRanch said:

All those are pricking irons not chisels , I got a set of pricking and they don’t do well in thicker leather. 

No, no. They are described as pricking irons but they are chisels. I know because I have a set: they punch through thick layers like butter. Of course, there's a limit, but I've punched 10 oz with them with an ease that I just don't get from Seiwa's chisels (and Seiwas are darn good: they're the budget option, from goodsjapan.com).

See a demo:

 

Edited March 15, 2021 by Hardrada

[battlemunky]

I have Sinabroks and they are verrry similar to KS Blades. Agreed they can double for both pricking irons and stitching irons. I've used then in what summed to 12 oz and they were just starting to sweat although they did start making the topside a good bit wider. 

[Hardrada]

Yup, Sinabroks are made by someone who used to work for KS Blade and then went on his own:

 

[jcuk]

Easy solution learn to double hand stitch/saddle stitch using an Awl and needle with the pricking iron you already own

 

Hope this helps

JCUK

[ThreeLRanch]

3 hours ago, Hardrada said:

No, no. They are described as pricking irons but they are chisels. I know because I have a set: they punch through thick layers like butter. Of course, there's a limit, but I've punched 10 oz with them with an ease that I just don't get from Seiwa's chisels (and Seiwas are darn good: they're the budget option, from goodsjapan.com).

See a demo:

 

 

So is the round dent better than what they call the pricking ? Do they come out of the leather pretty easy ?

[YinTx]

3 minutes ago, ThreeLRanch said:

So is the round dent better than what they call the pricking ? Do they come out of the leather pretty easy ?

That depends on what you are stitching.  If you are doing a turned bag, round dent may be better.  If you want to see slanted stitching, maybe not better.

YinTx

[ThreeLRanch]

Just mainly sheaths and wallets with some holsters in the mix. 

[Hardrada]

1 hour ago, ThreeLRanch said:

 

So is the round dent better than what they call the pricking ? Do they come out of the leather pretty easy ?

Don't bee fooled by the roundness, it's sharp! On thin leather you may not need a mallet at all; hand pressure is enough to go through 2 oz.

Yes, they do come out easy, although with thick layers you need to press on the leather firmly. I use a 1 square inch square piece of 1/4" neoprene to press the leather down without marking it. Just don't wiggle the punches all around like a joystick on an arcade lest you risk breaking a tooth.

 

Addendum: Ohhh, never mind, I see what you meant now: https://ksbladepunch.com/product/round-dent-black

D'oh!

1 hour ago, YinTx said:

That depends on what you are stitching.  If you are doing a turned bag, round dent may be better.  If you want to see slanted stitching, maybe not better.

YinTx

Interesting. Yeah, I've seen my turned pieces tear, guess it's because of the slit holes, eh?

Grr, now I want a set of the round ones.

Edited March 16, 2021 by Hardrada

[YinTx]

1 hour ago, Hardrada said:

Interesting. Yeah, I've seen my turned pieces tear, guess it's because of the slit holes, eh?

 

At least that is what happened to me.  I've taken to marking with a leather marking pen and using a round awl to open the leather up enough for the stitching needle, especially if I don't want any thread showing on the turned item.  Punching all the way through leather is popular these days, I get it, but there are some instances I think where I don't really want to do that, this is one of them.

YinTx

[billybopp]

15 hours ago, ThreeLRanch said:

Well I ordered a set from Springfield and got them today and I guess I was thinking that they might be just a little bigger , they look like they were made for kids or something so I’m sending them back. 
what are some good ones that I can get because I’ve looked and looked and it seems hard to find any that are in stock. 
I don’t mind spend some cash on them if need be , tried finding some Kevin Lee but only can find 20 teeth and I don’t really what that many. Any advise would be great on where to find some good quality ones. 

LOL!  I remember thinking the same thing when I got my first stitching chisels and pricking irons!   But then it occurred to me they make fairly small holes or slits in a material that's not all that hard and you don't need to wail on them with a hammer:  How big do they need to be?   Not all that big!  They work just fine.  I think part of the problem is that when you are looking to buy them you get a picture on the website that usually has just a picture of the tool with nothing to give an idea of scale.  

Some stitching irons such as KS Blade and Sinabroks are relatively new type.  They are a sort of hybrid between pricking irons and stitching irons, sort of the best of both worlds.  Like stitching irons, they are meant to go all the way through, and like pricking iron/awl they make a slit rather than an enlarged hole as most stitching irons do.  I haven't personally tried these but folks seem to like them a lot.  I just don't sew enough to justify the cost.

- Bill

[Tugadude]

16 hours ago, ThreeLRanch said:

Well I ordered a set from Springfield and got them today and I guess I was thinking that they might be just a little bigger , they look like they were made for kids or something so I’m sending them back. 
what are some good ones that I can get because I’ve looked and looked and it seems hard to find any that are in stock. 
I don’t mind spend some cash on them if need be , tried finding some Kevin Lee but only can find 20 teeth and I don’t really what that many. Any advise would be great on where to find some good quality ones. 

I bought a set several months ago and I really like them.  Sure, they are small, but they do the job and take up less space, so for me it isn't a negative.  I've found that they teeth are very smooth and they come out of the leather very easily compared to several other sets I've tried.

[BillinTR]

Let me pose a question or two on the subject if I am not hijacking the thread. When I browse online and in catalogs I see pricking irons, stiching irons and stitching chisels. Sometimes there seems to be overlap in the use of the terms and occasionally conflict in terminology. As someone indicated above KS Blade lists pricking irons and they are actually chisels. They also show regular, inverse, flat and round versions.

How is an inexperienced person supposed to know what he is getting if the terminology seems to conflict? And why would one opt for regular, inverse, flat or round. I work mostly with 7-8 oz veg tan for sheaths, archery gear, cases of one kind or another and have used a set of "chisels" I got from Weaver that have so far done what I need done.

Is there an already existing discussion or tutorial that explains all this? If so could anyone point me in the right direction? If not would anyone care to expound on the subject?

 

[fredk]

11 minutes ago, BillinTR said:

Is there an already existing discussion or tutorial that explains all this? If so could anyone point me in the right direction? If not would anyone care to expound on the subject?

 

[BillinTR]

Thank you for that heads up. A big help. Doesn't explain the occasional conflict in terminology but it sure tells me a lot about the tools.

[fredk]

20 minutes ago, BillinTR said:

 Doesn't explain the occasional conflict in terminology . . .

There's a 'eck of a lot of double terminology in leatherwork. Not only in the tools. After over 20 years at this lark I still need to check what some people are talking about

It all can have various reasons; regional names or terms, mis-naming long ago which is now accepted as correct, new names made up, misspelling of old names et cetera, et cetera - as Yul Byrnner once said

[Hardrada]

7 hours ago, BillinTR said:

They also show regular, inverse, flat and round versions.

Take a look at the pictures in the Shop section of their website and compare them.

Basically, the regular punches net you holes that slant upwards and away from you when you put your punched piece on the stitching pony: / / / / /

Inverse** means just that: the holes will slant towards you: \ \ \ \ \

Flat is self-explanatory: — — — — —

Ditto round: ° ° ° ° °

 

They also offer two versions: the traditional diamond hole and the European one. The one looks like a rhomb and the other like a slit.

 

_____________________

**The inverse punches are meant to complement the regular ones, for those cases where you must punch from the back side of the project. From the back the holes will slant towards you and look like this: \ \ \ \ \ , but when seen from the front will look like: / / / / /.

Edited March 18, 2021 by Hardrada

[billybopp]

6 hours ago, BillinTR said:

Thank you for that heads up. A big help. Doesn't explain the occasional conflict in terminology but it sure tells me a lot about the tools.

Yeah.  It is all a bit confusing, and some of the terminology isn't set in stone!  Some of the reasons for that are that pricking irons have been around for a very VERY long time (a century or more) while the others are much newer, they also at a quick glance look a LOT alike, and there are also multiple languages involved in the discussions.  Just about a perfect storm for confusion.  Furthermore, there can be some overlap in the way that they are used (you don't HAVE to use a tool in the intended way!).

In time, some of the terminology may stabilize - but I doubt it.  Until then we'll just have to continue to ask folks to clarify if there's any question.

- Bill 

[Tugadude]

9 hours ago, BillinTR said:

Thank you for that heads up. A big help. Doesn't explain the occasional conflict in terminology but it sure tells me a lot about the tools.

 

You are right that there is conflict in terminology.  The remedy is to know what you are looking for, not what they say it is.  Many manufacturer's don't market their tools properly in my opinion.  They call it one thing when it is clearly fit for some other purpose.  I've attached photos of various tools to this post.  They all have similarities, yet they are all quite different.  Sometimes their purposes overlap, sometimes they don't.

I like to think about it this way.  Any time the word "pricking" is used, it means that tool is designed to make marks that do not go all the way through the leather.  It is used solely to mark the locations where you will penetrate the leather with an awl.  Will pricking irons fully penetrate thin leather?  Of course, but that isn't their intended purpose.  Because of the taper of the teeth, fully penetrating thicker leather would yield a massive hole.  Not good!

Stitching irons ARE intended to go straight through leather, rendering the use of an awl unnecessary.  Can they be used to simply prick the leather?  Of course, and some do use them for that purpose and finish up the hole with their awl.

Notice the slender teeth and the fact that they don't widen like their pricking iron counterpart.

 

Stitching chisels are very similar to stitching irons but the hole they make is more chunky as compared to the irons.  They also tend to have a pronounced diamond shape.  Again, can they still be used to prick the leather, sure, with light pressure they'll mark a line of stitch-spacing as well as any other iron or wheel.  

Edited March 18, 2021 by Tugadude

[chuck123wapati]

couldn't be any clearer than that, thank you.

[BillinTR]

And thank all of you for the further clarification. I have probably learned more than my feeble, inexperienced brain is capable of handling. I hope the OP didn't consider this a thread hijack.