Novice buying leather

[MtlBiker]

I'm a total novice when it comes to buying leather and it seems I would have to buy from an online source without seeing the leather first.  Which makes it even more difficult for a novice.

I would be machine sewing small belt pouches to begin with, maybe to hold a leatherman or a little metal credit card holder I have (think about 6-8 credit card thickness).  I'm not sure what kind or thickness of leather I should be looking at.  I guess veg tan leather would be the right choice?  (I did buy a couple of used leather coats at a thrift store and took them apart for the leather but I find it's really too thin for what I want to make.)

I found a source online which is here in Quebec Canada (as I am) but when they list the leather with the price they don't specify how much leather that price gets you.  I'm guessing it's some kind of industry standard that you all know, but for a beginner it's all just unclear.  Here's the leather source I found.  They list two "vgni" (???), one 2-2.5 oz and the other 3-3.5 oz.  I guess the thicker one would be more appropriate for what I want to make?

And once I do get some leather, I guess I'll also need a burnishing tool, dies, and I have no idea what else.  What tools/dies/glues/etc. would you consider the basics that I should start with?

Thanks very much!

 

[fredk]

Culture differences. Here in N.I. / UK we measure leather thickness in millimetres. I can picture that thickness in my mind better than by the ounce.

Your 2 - 2.5 oz = about 0.8mm to 1mm,  your 3 - 3.5 oz = 1.2mm to 1.4mm but that link shows 3 - 3.5 as 1.1mm. I reckon that's just about too thin. For what you want I'd be going 1.6 to 2 mm. or 4 to 5 oz. 

Also, on that link, is a second menu choice, with the square footage, when you choose your thickness then choose your footage the price automatically changes

I think vgni is just the store code for veg, natural, India

There are loads of discussions on; tools, beginners, for the use of, on this ere forum. Do a search for them

[MtlBiker]

8 minutes ago, fredk said:

Culture differences. Here in N.I. / UK we measure leather thickness in millimetres. I can picture that thickness in my mind better than by the ounce.

Your 2 - 2.5 oz = about 0.8mm to 1mm,  your 3 - 3.5 oz = 1.2mm to 1.4mm but that link shows 3 - 3.5 as 1.1mm. I reckon that's just about too thin. For what you want I'd be going 1.6 to 2 mm. or 4 to 5 oz. 

Also, on that link, is a second menu choice, with the square footage, when you choose your thickness then choose your footage the price automatically changes

I think vgni is just the store code for veg, natural, India

There are loads of discussions on; tools, beginners, for the use of, on this ere forum. Do a search for them

Duh (smacking myself on the head!) for some reason that second menu choice just didn't register with me.  Thanks!

I just started sewing a year ago (during Covid isolation) and I've been slowly learning and working my way up to making things from leather.  It's too expensive to play with until having more sewing experience. 

The same place I linked to also has "European Vegged Tanned" leather... I don't know if the price is good, average or high... 1 sq. meter (converts to about 10 sq. ft.) of 4-5 oz leather costs $130 Cdn.

[Klara]

Regarding the amount of leather you'll get, it's in the lower little box (in the upper one you choose the thickness). Can $ 95.25 is for 9 to 10 square feet (foot?)

But you'll probably want European veg. tanned leather (because you can get it thicker), and there the price is in square meters (about 10 square ft. to the m2). 

(Anybody else thinks it hilarious that they sell European leather in Canada and leather from Argentina in Europe? And I wouldn't be surprised if my local shop's supply came at least in part from Tandy - many of the tools certainly do.)

(Oops, I took so long typing that the post is superfluous. But I don't see a way to delete...)

Edited April 30, 2021 by Klara

[MtlBiker]

1 hour ago, Klara said:

Regarding the amount of leather you'll get, it's in the lower little box (in the upper one you choose the thickness). Can $ 95.25 is for 9 to 10 square feet (foot?)

But you'll probably want European veg. tanned leather (because you can get it thicker), and there the price is in square meters (about 10 square ft. to the m2). 

(Anybody else thinks it hilarious that they sell European leather in Canada and leather from Argentina in Europe? And I wouldn't be surprised if my local shop's supply came at least in part from Tandy - many of the tools certainly do.)

(Oops, I took so long typing that the post is superfluous. But I don't see a way to delete...)

Thanks very much Klara!  I appreciate your effort to be helpful.

So, there's European leather and Argentinian leather... No Canadian or US leather?  Surely there must be.  And the other one that was on my link was Indian.

[fredk]

7 minutes ago, MtlBiker said:

So, there's European leather and Argentinian leather... No Canadian or US leather?  Surely there must be.  And the other one that was on my link was Indian.

Mentioning where the leather is from is often a marketing ploy. Basically, good leather is good leather irrespective of where it originates*  but some people, especially the end user, put large importance on where the leather is from. eg some people I've come across think Italian leather is better than Spanish or Scandinavian and these people expect to, and are willing to, pay more for something made with Italian leather.

One exception to this, European car manufacturers prefer to use Scandinavian leather as it is better. Better as far as scars and marks but not general quality. Scandinavians do not use barbed wire and they have far less tics to bite cattle, thus their hides are cleaner.

Source other leather sellers and ask if they have US or Canadian leathers, but don't ask for 'American' as that will include Mexico and all the countries in 'South America'

* a whole topic is devoted to this in another area but I'm keeping it to basics.

[MtlBiker]

8 minutes ago, fredk said:

Mentioning where the leather is from is often a marketing ploy. Basically, good leather is good leather irrespective of where it originates*  but some people, especially the end user, put large importance on where the leather is from. eg some people I've come across think Italian leather is better than Spanish or Scandinavian and these people expect to, and are willing to, pay more for something made with Italian leather.

One exception to this, European car manufacturers prefer to use Scandinavian leather as it is better. Better as far as scars and marks but not general quality. Scandinavians do not use barbed wire and they have far less tics to bite cattle, thus their hides are cleaner.

Source other leather sellers and ask if they have US or Canadian leathers, but don't ask for 'American' as that will include Mexico and all the countries in 'South America'

* a whole topic is devoted to this in another area but I'm keeping it to basics.

As a total newbie with leather, I really don't care where the leather comes from.  And I'd certainly not have the experience really to tell one quality from another.  At this point, I simply want leather thick enough to do my project as something to learn from.  So as long as the leather I get is suitable, I'd get the least expensive I can source.  I really need experience under my belt before I start working with higher quality ($) products.

 

Thank again for your help.

 

[Hardrada]

Kip doesn't burnish well. It's very soft tempered.

Now, I don't know how firm you want your pouches to be, so I won't dismiss it right off the bat, but I wouldn't use kip for that application.

[MtlBiker]

10 hours ago, Hardrada said:

Kip doesn't burnish well. It's very soft tempered.

Now, I don't know how firm you want your pouches to be, so I won't dismiss it right off the bat, but I wouldn't use kip for that application.

I'm afraid I'm such a newbie with leather that I don't understand what "kip" is.

I'd like to be able to form my pouch and I'd like it to stay fairly firm.

Here's the kind of pouch I want to make (as a first leather project)...  It's just to hold my shielded metal credit card holder and I plan to have a belt loop on the back and a snap closure.  It probably doesn't need any lining.  And I'd like the finished item to be black.  What kind of leather would you suggest for it?  I'll be machine sewing.

Thanks!

[mike02130]

This is getting pretty complicated.

Go here, https://www.oaleathersupply.com/ and buy their 3/4 oz leather.  Make a simple pouch like the one you show but eliminate that wrap-around thing covering the edge.  If you're using a machine you need nothing else.  Burnish the edges with some water and a stick.  No need line it, you're just asking for trouble.  Apply the KISS method--keep it simple s.....  After making one then you can explore further.  The horse goes in front of the cart.  Come back here and show us what you made and then we'll go from there.

[tsunkasapa]

1 hour ago, mike02130 said:

This is getting pretty complicated.

Go here, https://www.oaleathersupply.com/ and buy their 3/4 oz leather.  Make a simple pouch like the one you show but eliminate that wrap-around thing covering the edge.  If you're using a machine you need nothing else.  Burnish the edges with some water and a stick.  No need line it, you're just asking for trouble.  Apply the KISS method--keep it simple s.....  After making one then you can explore further.  The horse goes in front of the cart.  Come back here and show us what you made and then we'll go from there.

You, sir, have NAILED IT! It is so easy to go down the rabbit hole and get lost. Just make one and learn.  No bigger than that project seems to be, it won't be a huge expense if the first one doesn't turn out as expected. Odds are it will still be usable for something, give it to a young person to keep "treasures" in. The thing is to jump in and DO it, and learn from what you have done.

[Bert03241]

have your tried these places

 

 

Ads·wholesale leather supplier canada

 

 

Sale

Full Grain Veg‑Tanned Leather Piece ...

$8.09$8.99

Etsy

 

PRICE DROP

Springfield Leather Company Assorted ...

$69.99

Was $97

Amazon.com

 

Silky supple genuine leather pig suede hide

$37.00

District Leathers

 

PRICE DROP

Big Square Scraps of Beautiful Italian ...

$10.89

Was $15

Etsy

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

NAPPA Leather Canada HELLER Leather Distributor

3.7 (3) · Leather wholesaler

Mississauga, ON, Canada · +1 905-232-0074

Closed ⋅ Opens 10AM Mon

 

Buckskin Leather Company

4.7 (33) · Leather wholesaler

Calgary, AB, Canada · +1 403-253-3459

Closed ⋅ Opens 10AM Mon

Their website mentions wholesale leather supplier

 

Vanville Leather Ltd

4.3 (3) · Leather goods supplier

Vancouver, BC, Canada · +1 604-730-9894

Closed ⋅ Opens 8AM Tue 

[Hardrada]

14 hours ago, MtlBiker said:

I'm afraid I'm such a newbie with leather that I don't understand what "kip" is.

I'd like to be able to form my pouch and I'd like it to stay fairly firm.

Here's the kind of pouch I want to make (as a first leather project)...  It's just to hold my shielded metal credit card holder and I plan to have a belt loop on the back and a snap closure.  It probably doesn't need any lining.  And I'd like the finished item to be black.  What kind of leather would you suggest for it?  I'll be machine sewing.

Thanks!

Here, mate: https://waterhouseleather.com/leather-buying-guide/

Listed as kipskin there.

I'd suggest some medium to firm temper veg tan no greater than 3 oz in thickness.

Here, check these out:

 

That's for a round pouch, for a square one like yours this might be interesting:

 

Edited May 2, 2021 by Hardrada

[MtlBiker]

@Bert03241 Thanks for those links, Bert.  But the problem remains that as a novice I really don't know exactly what to order for my first project.  And it would be really great if I could see the choices in person, and talk to someone, before buying sight-unseen on the Internet.  (And most folks in the States just don't realize the hassles we often go through to bring things into Canada from the States... high shipping costs, shipping delays, extra charges like brokerage, often duties, etc.  So it's really preferable for us if at all possible to buy within Canada.)

The first link you gave ships from China and the thickness of the leather isn't mentioned.  And most of the other links are from the States, again complicating things with shipping and duty etc. to get it into Canada.  And none of the 3 Canadian sources you listed are within 300 miles of me (most much further) so again I'm faced with buying sight-unseen.

I did find a company here in Montreal that I plan to visit on Monday morning, Boilard Leather.  I hope to see the various choices and to get some advice. 

@mike02130 - Great advice, thanks!  That's actually what I had in mind... keeping it simple and the pouch I posted was just to show the approximate size and purpose of what I wanted to make as  my first project.  I hadn't planning on putting a binding on the edge with leather.  And that leather supply link you gave looks like a really terrific place.  But I couldn't find anywhere on their site where (which country) they are in.  They offer payment options in multiple different currencies but I'd much prefer to buy from a Canadian source than have it shipped from another country.  But it sure looks like they have what I'd need.  When you say to buy their "3/4 oz" leather, do you really mean three-quarters of an ounce?  I was told earlier that the 2 to 3 oz leather would be too thin for what I need.

@Hardrada - Thanks very much!

 

[mike02130]

2 hours ago, MtlBiker said:

- Great advice, thanks!  That's actually what I had in mind... keeping it simple and the pouch I posted was just to show the approximate size and purpose of what I wanted to make as  my first project.  I hadn't planning on putting a binding on the edge with leather.  And that leather supply link you gave looks like a really terrific place.  But I couldn't find anywhere on their site where (which country) they are in.  They offer payment options in multiple different currencies but I'd much prefer to buy from a Canadian source than have it shipped from another country.  But it sure looks like they have what I'd need.  When you say to buy their "3/4 oz" leather, do you really mean three-quarters of an ounce?  I was told earlier that the 2 to 3 oz leather would be too thin for what I need.

Google is your friend.  

https://www.google.com/search?q=oa+leather+supply&rlz=1C1JZAP_enUS889US891&oq=oa+l&aqs=chrome.0.69i59j69i57j0l3j69i60l3.1883j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8   

See what comes up first when you Google OA Leather Supply.

3/4 ounce, in USA means 3 to 4 ounce.

[MtlBiker]

19 minutes ago, mike02130 said:

Google is your friend.  

https://www.google.com/search?q=oa+leather+supply&rlz=1C1JZAP_enUS889US891&oq=oa+l&aqs=chrome.0.69i59j69i57j0l3j69i60l3.1883j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8   

See what comes up first when you Google OA Leather Supply.

3/4 ounce, in USA means 3 to 4 ounce.

Gee, you'd think a company would list somewhere on their website which country they're in!  You're not kidding about Google being our friend... thank you for that link.  I'm going to place a small order to start with.

Here in Canada, 3/4 usually means three quarters, and 3-4 would mean 3 to 4 oz.    And then the Brits probably have yet another way to say it!

 

[Sheilajeanne]

2 hours ago, MtlBiker said:

When you say to buy their "3/4 oz" leather, do you really mean three-quarters of an ounce?  I was told earlier that the 2 to 3 oz leather would be too thin for what I need.

No, he meant 3 to 4 oz. not 3/4 of an ounce. You don't use fractions when giving weights in ounces. And 3/4ths of an ounce would be less than 1/64th of an inch thick!!  

So, far too thin to use for much of anything!

[mike02130]

4 hours ago, MtlBiker said:

Gee, you'd think a company would list somewhere on their website which country they're in!  You're not kidding about Google being our friend... thank you for that link.  I'm going to place a small order to start with.

You ought to email them and set them straight.  You're not the first Canadian I've informed of OA that had no idea they were a Canadian dealer.

[fredk]

3 hours ago, MtlBiker said:

Here in Canada, 3/4 usually means three quarters, and 3-4 would mean 3 to 4 oz.    And then the Brits probably have yet another way to say it!

UK, we use millimeters for thickness. 1 US ounce for leather = 0.4mm thickness. Therefore 3oz = 1.2mm, 4oz = 1.6mm

and remember; when you apply dye to your raw leather and it dries, the leather shrinks. Not only in width x height, but also in thickness. Most often this shrinking in thickness goes unnoticed but it can affect the final out come of your project in some cases

[Sheilajeanne]

1 hour ago, fredk said:

and remember; when you apply dye to your raw leather and it dries, the leather shrinks. Not only in width x height, but also in thickness. Most often this shrinking in thickness goes unnoticed but it can affect the final out come of your project in some cases

I learn something new from this site nearly every day!   Had NO IDEA!

[MtlBiker]

I placed my first leather order yesterday, and I hope I ordered some good stuff.  I didn't see natural vegetable tanned leather on that site (OA Leather Supply) but I ordered Sepici Leather - Spade Milled Black 3-4oz × 1 and S.B. Foot - Dove 69 Black 5-6oz × 1 as well as two "mystery bundles".  And later today I'll be visiting the a local leather supplier where I hope to see and touch various leathers and hopefully get some advice.

The learning begins!

Thanks for all the help!

[blue duck]

You mentioned sewing your project with a machine. Do you have an actual leather sewing machine or an industrial walking foot sewing machine? If you are using a household machine, the type of leather you want for this project and that machine are not compatible. You will, at the least, break a needle and mess your timing up or even destroy the machine. You may need to consider hand sewing. There is a wealth of information on sewing machines on this site. It is a whole other can of worms.

 

[Bert03241]

Is it a big hassle to order from Amazon in Canada. If not they sell small sheets of leather in various thickness. for you pouch project you could order 1 or two sheets of  12"x12" Veg tan in 3 to 4  oz  .

[Hardrada]

8 hours ago, MtlBiker said:

I placed my first leather order yesterday, and I hope I ordered some good stuff.  I didn't see natural vegetable tanned leather on that site (OA Leather Supply) but I ordered Sepici Leather - Spade Milled Black 3-4oz × 1 and S.B. Foot - Dove 69 Black 5-6oz × 1 as well as two "mystery bundles".  And later today I'll be visiting the a local leather supplier where I hope to see and touch various leathers and hopefully get some advice.

The learning begins!

Thanks for all the help!

Let us know how it turns out!

If you want your pouches to stand on their own, go for the Sepici Spade next time!

[MtlBiker]

10 hours ago, blue duck said:

You mentioned sewing your project with a machine. Do you have an actual leather sewing machine or an industrial walking foot sewing machine? If you are using a household machine, the type of leather you want for this project and that machine are not compatible. You will, at the least, break a needle and mess your timing up or even destroy the machine. You may need to consider hand sewing. There is a wealth of information on sewing machines on this site. It is a whole other can of worms.

 

Well, I’ve got some leather needles for my Consew 206RB-5 and Techsew 2750 Pro… I’m pretty sure that they’ll do me for the near and foreseeable future. If I find I need a more heavy duty leather machine sometime later, well, maybe. For now I just want to get my feet wet with leather.