Consew 146 RB timing issues; Manual

[Chelan]

Note:  I apologize for wasting anyone's time if this topic has already been covered.  I did a general search, but did not get any specific results.

Background:  I recently purchased a Consew 146 RB-A1 from a company that repairs high end outdoor gear.  The machine looks brand new, ran like a dream during demo and was at a price I couldn't pass up.  It was one of the ones built in Japan.

I replaced the clutch motor with the Sailrite Workhorse servo motor, changed out the thread to V92 and the needle to a #18 for the sail work I will be doing.

Questions:

1.  The balance wheel is small in diameter and I find that it takes quite a bit more 'umph' to rotate it (compared to my non walking foot machines) when I go to raise the needle bar.  I don't hear anything binding, nor does it matter if I have the belt to the motor on or off.  Is it just a function of this being a walking foot machine and it just takes a bit more to move the lever arms and whatever else?  Or, is there something I need to loosen?

2.  In setting up the tension, I am real close, but I do sometimes miss a stitch.  I also have more luck picking up the bobbin thread when the needle moves to the left position (zig zag) and less at the right position.  I wanted to make sure I was adjusting the timing between the hook and needle properly, but there is a woeful lack of instructions (or hard to understand instructions) in the archaic Consew 146 manual.  Email messages to Consew go unanswered.  

Is there anyone out there who can give me good, clear instructions for setting the hook timing on this particular machine?  And, has anyone found an actual manual for the 146 RB that might have been updated since it was first printed in the 1960's or 70's?  Heck, they still sell this machine.

 

Thank you.

Paul Denny

Edited August 23, 2021 by Chelan

[trash treasure]

I looked at the manual for this machine, and the timing instructions seem "odd".

It looks like they're telling you to time the machine at the right zig zag position, but having the hook cross the needle while the needle bar is stationary, at the bottom of it's stroke , NOT after the needle has begun upward travel by 2mm, or whatever.   I have NO experience with this machine, but I don't understand a timing instruction like that - The slight upward travel of the needle is what forms the loop that the hook catches on any machine I know of - That's just the way it works.

But, that's not much help, as like I say, I have no experience with this one - Hopefully someone that does will chime in.......

[Chelan]

Hello TT:

That's exactly what I am running into:  The old manual (actually the old, new, new-old) manual is hard to decipher on many topics.  It sounds like you understood it about as well as I did...and I have experience with other Consew sewing machines!  Apparently Consew figures the timing should be so intuitive--no matter the skill level of the owner--that few instructions are needed.  I'd like to know:  Do you time the hook/needle with the zig-zag set to the widest stitch or the width of stitch most likely to be used; should it be timed with the needle fully to the left or to the right?  I am sure I will be able to figure it out through much trial and error, but what a pain.  As I mentioned before, I got no help from Consew.

Now, on a bright note, I do find that Sailrite has a very good manual for their Professional Sewing Machine which looks very similar to my Consew 146 RB.   I am going to make some adjustments based on their manual and see what happens.  There is nothing to lose at this point.

I do appreciate your response!

[nylonRigging]

I got this machine and book , I always remembered it as being a little paininAss to get the timing just perfect . Tuning to get strait stitch and zigzag stitching threw all the stitch lengths, and plus all doing it all in reverse . That is a real Good quality straight/zigzag combo stitch machine and yours in the Pic.  is made in Japan model to .

I remember that when it say's .. " set Hook Gib 0.5mm " .. that there for me .. was just a tiny plus\minus to get it all to clik . also I remember 1st to set the needle center and to se the zigzag width all proper adjusted, before start on the needle-hook timing .

 

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Edited August 25, 2021 by nylonRigging

[Chelan]

Thank you, Nylon Rigging!.  I have these illustrations in one of the manuals I downloaded, but your explanations help a lot.  I will be giving the hook timing another go (along with proper alignment of the inner and outer presser feet) on Saturday or Sunday.  I might be able to guess, but what is the Hook Jib?   The hand drawing leaves a little bit to be desired...

Chelan

[nylonRigging]

7 hours ago, Chelan said:

Thank you, Nylon Rigging!.  I have these illustrations in one of the manuals I downloaded, but your explanations help a lot.  I will be giving the hook timing another go (along with proper alignment of the inner and outer presser feet) on Saturday or Sunday.  I might be able to guess, but what is the Hook Jib?   The hand drawing leaves a little bit to be desired...

Chelan

( Gib ) .. not, Jib .

and I know . the factory book illustration looks like they hired a chimpanzee to do there drawing ...LOL

the Gib is ( plate-part ) sits behind the Hook, that is part of the outer bobbin assembly, and the Gib hold the basket on it's guide track that spins inside the outer Assembly . The outside bobbin assembly Hook and Gib . the Basket that spins inside it, is what you snap your M-size bobbins into .
It is something that I am not an expert in at doing because I might only 'Time' do it every 2 or 3 years on the 146RB , but I remember it all gets a lot clearer when you start doing and watching the needle plunge on that stroke on the bobbin assembly .

And, to show you ... I just dug out an 'older' used , complete bobbin assembly for 146RB1A , that I keep in case I need to rob a screw or part . KEEP all old bobbin assembly's, when you repair.  because all those screws on bobbin assembly are all obnoxiously tiny and very easy lost if dropped . ... LOL , And I already have robbed a screw off this old Gib  .

Popping a Pic.  of it and try to point to ( Gib ) . and if you look at yours on your machine . You will see it is held on with 3 screws . The tip of my pencil is what the manual picture is showing , in relation to the needle plunging past end of Gib . .. also, everyday of sewing, put a tiny drop of oil on that little guide track the basket spins on .
-

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Edited August 28, 2021 by nylonRigging

[Chelan]

Hello Nylon Rigging:

Thank you so much for the further explanation and the photo!  In fact, I just finished printing it out and will put it with my "manual."   I have to agree with you:  The illustrations in the owner's manual are probably worse than what I could draw and the saddest thing about this all is that this is the same instruction manual you will get (maybe) with any of the Consew 146 RB machines you can buy today!  Come on, Consew...get with the program.

Unfortunately, I only have one, complete bobbin assembly (the part that the bobbin and bobbin holder sit into and contains the hook), but spare bobbin holders and bobbins (of course).  I even bought a few of the M size Hembobs to save me some time.   Anytime I take apart something like this, I usually do it inside a baking pan so in case I drop a screw...

O.K.  I was up at the sail loft yesterday and spent quite a bit of time replacing a couple of things on my table--new drawer and a new treadle peddle.  The new drawer is a total pce o'crap and the new pedal is barely acceptable.  Waste of time.  Then, I got into the timing of the hook.  Unfortunately, I started off by using the Instructions I took off Sailrites Professional sewing machine, which is fairly close to Consew 146.   Getting to the screws that hold the hook assembly to the shaft was a major pain and things kept shifting.  When completed with the timing, things were going fairly well, although it took me 5 or 6 rotations to hook the bobbin thread.  About the time I was satisfied with my zig zag stitches and ready to get to work, I started to miss a stitch here and there; always on the right down stroke.    Needless to say, I need to give the timing another go.

This time, I am going to start with the Consew instructions and, now that you have explained the parts better than the manual.  If that doesn't work, I will just go back to doing 'my thing' which seemed to work with my Consew 99 as well as the Pfaff 138.  On a bright note, I did discover that the needle bar does have timing marks located on the shaft and those do seem to be accurate, as does the needle bar height itself.  I was also able to better 'mesh' the feed dog and the outer presser foot..

One last question (for now):  I find that it takes a lot more umph to turn the balance wheel on this Consew 146 than it does on any of my other non-walking foot sewing machines.  Is this just a function of it being a walking foot sewing machine, or am I missing something?  My 146 is in pristine condition and I have even gone through and oiled every single thing that is supposed to be oiled and I have checked to make sure all the gears are greased as required.  This thing has been beautifully maintained.    I just can't get the dang hook-needle timing done correctly.   ARRRRRGGGGGGGGHHHHH!

Thanks again for the help.

 

Best regards,

 

Chelan

[nylonRigging]

1 hour ago, Chelan said:

One last question (for now):  I find that it takes a lot more umph to turn the balance wheel on this Consew 146 than it does on any of my other non-walking foot sewing machines.

hey noticed that you up North of me . Did you pick that Consew up off craiglist ? , I noticed a  couple of RB146's on there for sale few months back and one was cleam machine and a good pricing . II was even mulling over doing the long drive up and back  I-5 to buy it .
---

With you drive belt off the hand wheel . And with the Presser Foot in UP position off the dogs . Your machine should spin pretty free by hand .

1st look, easy pretty Common ---> Is the  Needle Plate  binding/rubbing  against the  feed dogs, when you rotate by hand  ??  . after screwing down the needle plate look and see and 'feel' with turning machine over by hand that the Dog not being the friction spot .
If you have removed the dogs and needle plate to service . When replace them back with leaving your 2 Dog screws not tight . then when screwing the plate down, you can align the feed dog for clearance . The 2 screw heads on Dog, easy seen and just tighten down .
.

Edited August 29, 2021 by nylonRigging

[chrisash]

Have you tried a larger needle for #92 thread like size 19 or 20, size 19 is the recommended size size 18 is a bit small

[Chelan]

Nylon Rigging:

Yes, I am the one who picked up the Craigslisted 146 about a month ago.  It was just a stroke of luck that, on a whim, I looked on Craigslist for the 146 knowing that I couldn't afford a new one (nor could I justify it).  When I saw this one on Craigslist and looked at the photos, it almost seemed too good to be true.  So, I took a chance, drove down to Seattle from Camano Island--during rush hour--and it was, indeed too good, but it was true.  It looked like it had hardly ever been used.  Bought it on the spot because they said another person was thinking of coming to look at it that next Monday (maybe you?).

I will take your suggestions and see if I can get the balance wheel to turn more easily.  I know the feed dogs are centered properly on the needle plate and I don't hear anything rubbing anywhere.  Thanks again for the suggestions.

Chrisash:  Thank you for the comments.  I have tried timing the hook/needle using needle sizes 18-20, with the same unsuccessful results (so far).   I have had good success using the #18 needles with V92 and, as long as I can easily thread the needle, I prefer the smaller size.  Even though it is negligible, my mind tells me that punching smaller holes is better than big holes.   I do have some size 19 needles, so maybe I will throw that into the mix as well.  When I get to the point of sewing really long seams--10 feet and beyond (see attached photo)--or if I am sewing many layers of material at a time, I will sometimes switch to the larger, size 20 needle as it seems to deflect less when I have less control over what I am pushing through the machine.  BTW:  I usually try to time the hook depending on what size needle I am using.  Maybe what I will do the next time I attempt to time the hook is to start off using a size 18 needle.  With that setting, I will test again, but insert the #19, then the #20 just to see if I get better results.  If the timing gives me better results with the larger size needles, it may indicate what my next adjustment should be....or, if I should just stick with the larger needle and call it a day!

[nylonRigging]

On 8/31/2021 at 1:23 PM, Chelan said:

Yes, I am the one who picked up the Craigslisted 146 about a month ago.  It was just a stroke of luck

You doing large skin/panels on Ultralites ? , just curious if you thought about getting a 2 or 3 point Cam for the work .
And yes, that was the 146 I was looking at ...LOL ,  a good buy does pop-up every now and then. That is a solid machine .
.

[Chelan]

Yes, that is a replacement sail for an ultralight.  All the good sailmakers for these flying machines have either retired or died, and the sailboat sail makers won't touch them due to liability.   Thus, I decided to learn to sew and this was my first attempt.   And, yes, I have thought about getting the 3 point cam for my 146, but the price is pretty steep...if you can find them.  And, knowing Consew, I doubt there is even the briefest of instructions about how to install and tune the new system.   For now, I will just run two rows of stitching side by side when I join large panels together.   You can barely see an example of that between the orange and yellow panels.

With your guidance and picture, I gave it another go at timing my Consew yesterday.   I started off by using a zig zag width closer to what I may actually be using in practice and then (kinda) followed the instructions.   The ensuing results were satisfactory, if not good.   I got the tension right about where I want it and ran several test stitches until I got fairly comfortable with this machine.   Since I can't use any sort of edge guide on most of what I do, I pick a spot on the foot and visually reference that as I sew along.   I just need to do some more testing to find out where that spot is on this machine.

[nylonRigging]

Hey also ..when you setting zigzag adjustment and doing Needle L and R on the Hook rotation . some needle have a little longer needle scarf cut , So make sure you not tapping the Hook top bottom of the scarf .
.

[trash treasure]

14 hours ago, Chelan said:

Yes, that is a replacement sail for an ultralight.  All the good sailmakers for these flying machines have either retired or died, and the sailboat sail makers won't touch them due to liability. 

 

 Apologies for being totally OT - My wife used to work for one of them, Gunnar Grabaum of Wingsails, in NY state.  We heard some years ago, that he had died in a crash, demo-ing a double that he was selling!   Patty always used to say how much it troubled her, seeing the condition of the sails they'd get in for repair or replacement - Held together with duct tape, etc - That people would actually fly an airplane patched up like that bothered her for some reason .......

Speaking of liability, it used to be that the sail cloth suppliers (Challenge, DP, Bainbridge, etc) wouldn't sell to you, if they knew you were making UL wings  - Is that still true ?

Again, sorry for the thread drift - Good luck with the timing

[Chelan]

Speaking if timing....this is perfect.  I was pining for the old days when Gunnar made a few of the aftermarket sails for our particular brand of Ultralights!  Beautiful, beautiful workmanship.  In fact, we still have one that is being used and it is still in great shape.  It even has his sailmaker tag on it.

No, getting fabric from D-P was never a problem.  In fact, they were willing to let me purchase some short rolls from them a year or so ago.  As long as I could hit a minimum.  If not, I can buy their material through a reseller like Sailrite.  Dimension-Polyant is wonderful material to work with for our particular product.

BTW:  I am getting real close with the timing and hope to start sewing panels together shortly.  I've gotten some excellent, helpful hints from this forum!

[IslandSails]

Hi there! Sorry to revive a dead thread but I stumbled upon this looking for info on timing my Mason (re branded consew 146). I have a bit of info for you if you need

When I got my machine it had a three step cam in it. I got a new regular cam off a place in Toronto for a pretty penny. Anyhoo, Sail rite has a video on how to replace them and it worked like a charm. I just did it in reverse. I'll add the link at the bottom. 

As for the flywheel being stiff, I think that's just because it's newer. My 20" Mason spins beautifully, though it's really old. But I have a newer 30" consew 146 and the flywheel is like how you describe. Tbh I hardly use it as with the extra length and the stiffness it's a bear on your shoulder. So I think it's just going to be time on that one. 

Hope you got your machine sorted in any case! 

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=s1fMR4VZ-Us