Holster and seeking advice

[papaleaf]

Hello, all.

I believe this is my first post, although have observed for some time. I really appreciate all the wisdom shared through the forum. It's remarkable to find so many fantastic craftsmen who are also humble and encouraging to others who are working to hone their skills. 

I've made a few holsters over time. Have found that my different variations don't like sharp ejection ports. Especially noticeable on the recent project for a Springfield Hellcat (shown in attached pic). On this particular holster I find that almost any forward pressure on draw make the gun want to hang up as the forward edge of the ejection port digs into the leather, and especially the stitching. I did groove a stitching channel in hopes of mitigating, but this was not effective. In the past I have done holsters without a reinforcement panel, thus no stitching; this approach is an improvement, but still more scrape on draw that I like to see. On this latest project it is too severe to be acceptable, so I'm looking for methods to mitigate/eliminate the issue.

What suggestions do you have? Am I missing something in my design or execution? Is this unavoidable with firearms with ejection ports with exterior edges that are not radiused?

Thanks in advance for your wisdom.

Edited October 19, 2021 by papaleaf

[jrdunn]

I would think that a more forward cant would help since as you draw, your hand(and gun) come forward.

JM2C

Jim

[papaleaf]

Thanks, Jim. Good point and suggestion is very much appreciated. 

[Hags]

I agree with more forward cant as a possible solution.  Can't really tell what you have since it looks like an avenger type with a belt tunnel in the back. I tend to go with a 15 degree forward cant. I also have my sweat guard rise up in the back of the holster to allow for more retention from the back of the holster than the front. I achieve most of my retention from the trigger guard and the back side of the holster.  I usually tape over the ejection port to prevent lockup. As you see in the pic (chest rig, not hip, but the holster is the issue) , I have no molding around the ejection port.  Wish I had pics of the back, sorry. Hope thos helps.

[donohueleather]

my two cents...

First cent - nice looking piece. Seriously.. just... Nice.

 

Second cent - *(if you have to be a perfectionist.. )

to me it looks like the cutout puts the pressure right at the ejection port. It appears to actually mold slightly inwards right at the ejection port. I can see the cutout is for sight clearance but the sight doesn't seem to need that much.

My suggestion would be to reduce the depth of the cutout (as I hastily drew).

Perhaps the forming around the full width of the slide vs. the profile of the ejection port will allow for secure retention as well as natural clearance for the front portion of the ejection port...

assuming that, then perhaps the stitch grooving, hammering,etc. will have more of the effect you are shooting for.

[papaleaf]

Thank you, everyone.

Hags, thanks for the suggestion about taping over the ejection point. For a Kahr PM9 I cut a plug to fill the ejection port cavity to prevent that same lockup issue. Learned that lesson when I had to cut the stitching in order to remove my bride's G26 from an early attempt. (And I then also realized that there's a difference between custom fit and ridiculously close tolerances that are counter productive.) I double checked this one and there may be an ever-so-slight indentation, but not causing lockup. The hangup is on draw when front edge of ejection port is catching on stitching. See pic. (Great chest rig, BTW. I have a friend who's asked me to make one, but I've been daunted. Yours is a really clean, functional, and great looking rendition for inspiration.)

Donohueleather, thanks for the compliment. High praise and much appreciated. Perfectionist?  Well, I seem to have have CDO. It's like OCD, but with the letters in the proper alpha order, so thanks for the suggestion and illustration for less optic clearance. (I didn't give the prior attempt enough room, so I may have strayed a bit too far in the other direction on this attempt.) I see your point that a more full length channel may help, along with increased cant as others have mentioned. In the attached pic you'll see that even though I grooved and hammered, the interior stitching stands proud of the leather where it had the sharpest bend (corner of slide, and the problematic corner of the ejection port). [Although I did forget to hammer the stitching on the belt loop wings until after I molded.] It's at this point in the draw, about 1" out, that the hangup occurs.

I'm wondering whether having no interior stitching at that point on the reinforcement panel might solve the problem.  I could have external cosmetic stitching on that portion of panel and instead rely on the Barge cement to keep that inch or so together; I'd have proper stitching for the rest of the panel. Not sure that I'm articulating well. Does this sound viable/reasonable/logical/etc.?

Edited October 21, 2021 by papaleaf
spelling/grammar; CDO

[papaleaf]

Back view in case it's helpful. 

[JLSleather]

Overall, I LIKE this holster.

If you're having an issue specifically with the thread, then it's a simple matter to RECESS the thread (on the inside).  IF that's the issue, prollem solved.

If on the other hand you're having similar issues with specific models, might be worth the effort to adjust design slightly to "flare" the top (much as one might with the so-called "western" rigs) and add a tensioner screw at the muzzle end to "suit" your own personal 'feel'.

[papaleaf]

Thanks, JLS. I suspect it may be the thread standing proud of surface, specifically in that are of the fold, that's causing the issue. It's thin leather so I was conservative with the depth of the stitching groove, and that may have added to the problem. At some point I'll make another but without a reinforcement panel; or with better recessed threads; or without threads at that part of the interior, or ...? I've made sheaths with flared openings, but not holsters; would be interesting to try. And yes, I was just thinking about the tensioner as an option too (although I'd envisioned at the trigger guard)... my notion was a tension bushing would enable me to have a looser fit at holster opening. Thanks for validating the tension idea. 

Also, thanks for making some of your patterns and guidance available online. I've made a couple based on your 50/50 pancake-style, with design credits to you. They work very well, the recipients were pleased, and I learned a lot in the process. 

[Hags]

It really does appear to be some seriously heavy thread. I machine sew,  and use 207 on mine,  and have had no issues. I do wet the back of the front after sewing on the reinforcing piece and hammer the thread flat from the back. Maybe use a little smaller thread? And Papaleaf, if you like my design, check out my attachments,  I posted a pic of all my parts and pieces on a grid board so you can see the sizes if your interested. I too used Jls's holster design method.

[AzShooter]

I like it.  What can I say.  If it works stay with it.  The design is vey  nice.

[papaleaf]

Hags, thanks for mentioning your attachments. I don't see them in the post. Is there somewhere else I can find them? Also, the thread is on the heavy side. I'll look into finer options next go around. No machine, so I hand stitch. 

AZ, thanks for the feedback.

[Hags]

Sorry, I just saw this.. here's a pic of my parts and pieces I use for my shoulder rigs. I use nylon for my chest straps, but leather is an option as well. I catch hell from a few members for this, but leather is not always the best material. I measure below the nipples, cut to size, and the holster width usually gives me enough room for clothing allowance. I do a 25 degree cant on the chest rigs, and just be sure to leave enough room for a grip and draw away. Dont hesitate  to ask if you have other questions. 

[papaleaf]

Hags, this is spectacular. Thank you. BTW, where did you source your glass slicker?

Also, what weight leathers for the components?

Edited November 14, 2021 by papaleaf
leather weight question

[Hags]

I use Hermann  Oak 7/8 for the holster, 4/5 for the rest,  1" nylon for the chest strap, but you could do leather with a buckle as well. The glass slicker came from amazon. I see now there is a 2 pack of different sizes. I think I would like that better. Sometimes this one is just too big. I bought a 2 pack for <$20. I  bought my welded rings there as well as the purple loctite (you don't need 40 to 50 ml!) that I use on my Chicago screws. I do almost all my buying online. I live on the Olympic peninsula of Washington state and dont have the luxury of a leather supply within 5p miles that includes a ferry ride across the Puget sound.

Edited November 15, 2021 by Hags
Spelling and content

[JayEhl]

13 hours ago, Hags said:

I live on the Olympic peninsula of Washington state

Sounds peaceful.   

[Hags]

It is. Getting a little breeze off the Pacific today  but the Olympic mountains block the prevalent southern wind we usually get. I grew up in Texas,  moved to Seattle in 91 and got addicted to mountains,  trees, rivers, salmon, etc, etc, etc. 52 here today.