Beginner with questions about belt straps

[BriarandThorne]

I recently made my first leathercraft project. I was in need of a belt, so I decided to try to make one myself. I bought a veg tanned natural tooling strap from Weaver, along with all the hardware, some dye, neatsfoot oil and tan-kote and I'm now the proud owner of a handmade mediocre looking leather belt! All the flaws and goofs aside, this was one of the most fun projects I've ever tried. I'm hooked and looking forward to learning and doing more.

I've decided to make some belts for Christmas presents this year and I had a few questions before moving forward. In shopping online for straps, I'm wondering about ordering one of the pre-dyed straps from Horween, or Wickett & Craig, etc. instead. With those straps, do you just edge bevel, and carefully edge dye with a similar color, then burnish as usual? Would there be any need for something like the tan-kote when using those straps? I assume not but I don't know how those differ from the natural veg tan strap that I used. Are there any other differences or considerations when using those straps? Some of them look quite beautiful, and no doubt, better looking than my ham-fisted first attempt at dyeing.

Also, forgive the lack of edge-burnishing on my belt keeper. I will be replacing that soon. :D

 

[JLSleather]

WIckett/Craig skirting makes a  nice belt.  You can get it in colors, which are generally quite good (though not exact - the "brown" you buy today and the brown you buy in two months may not be quite the same shade).  Still need to apply some sort of finish.

I do not use leather from Weaver.

[BriarandThorne]

Thanks for your input. I was looking at some of the straps available through Buckleguy and a few other vendors and some of them look really beautiful.

[Tugadude]

Nice job on your first belt.  The cool thing is you are already seeing things you need to change next time around and that's the whole process of improving.  I like the creases along the length of the belt.  I think that always adds a finished look compared to leaving it plain.  Did you heat the creaser?  If not, you might try it next time.  Experiment on some scrap.  I think it adds to the look and the longevity of the crease.  

It's fun to make something and have it turn out, isn't it!

[Spyros]

Better than my first belt that's for sure.

I like sedgwick english bridle for belts, it looks great, it's very durable and it doesn't need any finishing or dying, you buy it the colour you want and just give it a buff with a cloth and burnish the edges.  You can buy pre cut straps but if I was making a batch of belts I'd buy a bend and cut it myself, it works out cheaper.

If you line and stitch a belt you add a lot to longevity and durability, but it's a bigger job obviously, especially if you're hand stitching.

For finishing in other types of leather like veg tan or skirting I like carnauba creme from fiebings, you could do tan kote or resolene but it would make it shinier, which you may or may not want.

If I don't line the belt, I like to add a layer tan kote on the flesh side and then press it down with a piece ground glass, it makes it more presentable IMO and seals it better as well.

 

[BriarandThorne]

15 hours ago, Spyros said:

I like sedgwick english bridle for belts, it looks great, it's very durable and it doesn't need any finishing or dying

Now that you say that, I realize that the straps I'm referring to in the OP as "pre-dyed" are, in fact, English bridle. So that leather burnishes like natural veg tan? 

Edited November 22, 2021 by BriarandThorne
Quote marks

[BriarandThorne]

15 hours ago, Spyros said:

Better than my first belt that's for sure.

Thanks. I appreciate the compliment. I enjoyed the process tremendously!

[HandyDave]

Looks alot better then mt first belt as well. And it has allready been said but it is much cheaper in long run to buy bigger pieces of leather and cut your own straps if your doing several. I started off buying precut belt blanks and didnt take long to see the money i was throwing away buying the precuts. And just like most things the bigger pieces you buy or the more you buy the cheaper it works out in the end.

[PastorBob]

nice belt.  Definitely a fun hobby / business (if lucky).  Where in MO are you located.  I am in Carthage.

[Spyros]

On 11/23/2021 at 3:20 AM, BriarandThorne said:

Now that you say that, I realize that the straps I'm referring to in the OP as "pre-dyed" are, in fact, English bridle. So that leather burnishes like natural veg tan? 

They're all different but generally yeah.  You'll find there are significant differences between english bridle from an American tannery and english bridle from England, not necessarily better or worse, but different.  Sometimes there are differences even between colours of the exact same leather, if you get tan sedgwick bridle it's a different beast than black sedwick bridle.  And sometimes differences between hides of the same thing... leather is all organic, nothing is ever exactly the same

[BriarandThorne]

11 hours ago, HandyDave said:

Looks alot better then mt first belt as well. And it has allready been said but it is much cheaper in long run to buy bigger pieces of leather and cut your own straps if your doing several. I started off buying precut belt blanks and didnt take long to see the money i was throwing away buying the precuts. And just like most things the bigger pieces you buy or the more you buy the cheaper it works out in the end.

Thank you. I've been looking around at some bigger pieces since I posted this. Being new to this, I'm not sure where all I should be looking but I found some bridle double shoulders on Springfield leather. Are those a reasonable option? A side is a bit out of my price range at the moment but some of those weren't outrageously priced. I'm slightly confused by bends and backs and cullatas but I'm sure I'll get it figured out. 

10 hours ago, PastorBob said:

nice belt.  Definitely a fun hobby / business (if lucky).  Where in MO are you located.  I am in Carthage.

Thank you. I'm in Jefferson County. Hello neighbor.

[BriarandThorne]

1 hour ago, Spyros said:

They're all different but generally yeah.  You'll find there are significant differences between english bridle from an American tannery and english bridle from England, not necessarily better or worse, but different.  Sometimes there are differences even between colours of the exact same leather, if you get tan sedgwick bridle it's a different beast than black sedwick bridle.  And sometimes differences between hides of the same thing... leather is all organic, nothing is ever exactly the same

Thank you for the info. I've been slowly working my way down the leather rabbit hole. Bridle, strap, harness, skirting, etc. It's a lot to take in!  

[Spyros]

56 minutes ago, BriarandThorne said:

Thank you for the info. I've been slowly working my way down the leather rabbit hole. Bridle, strap, harness, skirting, etc. It's a lot to take in!  

Don't worry about it too much.  Just get your knowledge in the ball park so you don't make any crucial mistake like buying suede or something to make belts, and start ordering.  People will tell you this material is good for that etc, and it's generally valid advice, but in reality you'll never know about a particular leather until you actually feel it in your hands and start working it.

Generally in the big shops like buckleguy/weaver/tandy etc, the leather they sell in belts and straps is good for ... belts and straps (duh).   Go in their websites, sort for leather in straps and read the descriptions, that will give you a good idea of the attributes you're looking for, and which types of leather generally have these attributes. But remember it's not gospel.  Buckleguy sells Horween Dublin in straps, but Dublin is fairly stretchy and nowhere near as firm as English bridle from an American tannery, which again is *usually* not as firm as English bridle from England.  You can still use Dublin but it would have to be fairly thick.  Then you also have latigo, tooling veg tan, all those leathers are typically used for belts with good results.  

Another way to narrow it down is in some websites you'll see a section for "saddlery leather".  Typically almost anything in that section will be strong and firm and therefore good for bridles, straps, belts.

Two other things to know: regardless of the type of leather or the tanning process, the strength of leather is mostly in the very top layer: the outside skin or "grain". 

So if you're going for strength avoid anything that has this layer shaved off.  Anything that says top grain, suede, genuine leather etc it's generally not a good option for strapping.  And the other thing: as long as you have the top layer (the grain), any kind and almost any thickness of leather will make a strong and durable belt if you line it with itself (ie double it up), glue, and stitch it with a good quality polyester thread.

Edited November 25, 2021 by Spyros

[HandyDave]

And if your doing belts stay away from very much belly area leather. Its naturally more stretchy and alot of times has more flaws. I allways stay up on the back for my belts. Ill usually get about 6 to 10 good 1 1/2" belts from a side depending on side. Then i have plenty left for a few holsters or knife sheaths. I got a little sister who likes taking all my small scraps and pieces that i cant use or dont want to use and makes earrings and bracelets and other smaller such like that. I also seem to end up doing alot of belts for the bigger guys. Average waist size i make belts for is 42" to 48" so the sides allow me to get those longer straps easier. I done a padded folded belt for a ladies father that total length of belt was 76". 

[BriarandThorne]

Thanks for all of that, Spyros. That's very helpful and informative. As far as sizing goes, should I look for double shoulders or are single shoulders able to be used for straps? Are single bends generally long enough to use?

 

Thanks for the tips, HandyDave.

[Spyros]

15 minutes ago, BriarandThorne said:

Thanks for all of that, Spyros. That's very helpful and informative. As far as sizing goes, should I look for double shoulders or are single shoulders able to be used for straps? Are single bends generally long enough to use?

 

Thanks for the tips, HandyDave.

Yeah, a bend is basically a rectangle that contains the best part of a hide, and it is what they cut the best quality belts out of.

Shoulders is probably second best, it just usually contains stretch marks.  The leather can be a little weaker on the stretch marks, but not unusable.

Just shoulders, unless we're talking about a big animal, would probably not be long enough for belts.

Get a bend, or double bend, or a culatta (which is bend+shoulders).  You could of course also get a whole side, but then you're stuck with the belly, which is unsuitable for most leatherworking projects and certainly not good for quality belts, like HandDave said.  It's usually soft, stretchy and wrinkly, although the best leather types like bridle have a higher yield (ie even parts of the belly are still firm and uniformed enough to work with).

Keep in mind all those definitions like bend, culatta, butt, etc can also vary a little from merchant to merchant and tannery to tannery so make sure to see what they actually mean by every cut before you order.  Buckleguy is good like that, they include their definitions in the bottom of every item on their website.

Edited November 25, 2021 by Spyros

[BriarandThorne]

4 minutes ago, Spyros said:

Get a bend, or double bend, or a culatta (which is bend+shoulders).  You could of course also get a whole side, but then you're stuck with the belly, which is unsuitable for most leatherworking projects and certainly not good for quality belts, like HandDave said.

This is very helpful. Thanks for all your input.

[Spyros]

2 minutes ago, BriarandThorne said:

This is very helpful. Thanks for all your input.

no problem mate, good luck

[Klara]

Something that hasn't been mentioned yet and which I didn't know until recently: A well-made strap is supposed to be cut in the direction of the animal's spine, not at right angles to it. Which is why double shoulders, even if the measurements look good, don't work - the length is in the wrong direction (does that make sense?)

(I'm saying "supposed to be" because I have a double shoulder and a double butt and various pieces where I don't know and I'm using them however I get the needed length and so far everything has worked out fine. But I'm only making things for myself at the moment...)

 

[alpha2]

I had to return a number of belt blanks to Buckleguy recently. Worst pieces of leather I'd seen, was supposedly water buffalo. The surface looked like plastic (it wasn't, just the way they finished it). I made one belt, just to see if it was salvageable, it wasn't. 

This was one order, of one type of leather, can't speak to their other offerings. 

[Spyros]

7 hours ago, alpha2 said:

I had to return a number of belt blanks to Buckleguy recently. Worst pieces of leather I'd seen, was supposedly water buffalo. The surface looked like plastic (it wasn't, just the way they finished it). I made one belt, just to see if it was salvageable, it wasn't. 

This was one order, of one type of leather, can't speak to their other offerings. 

Sure it was buckleguy?  I didn't know they sell belt blanks, I can only see straps on their website.  And I don't see water buffalo anywhere...

[BriarandThorne]

On 11/26/2021 at 2:58 AM, Klara said:

Something that hasn't been mentioned yet and which I didn't know until recently: A well-made strap is supposed to be cut in the direction of the animal's spine, not at right angles to it. Which is why double shoulders, even if the measurements look good, don't work - the length is in the wrong direction (does that make sense?)

(I'm saying "supposed to be" because I have a double shoulder and a double butt and various pieces where I don't know and I'm using them however I get the needed length and so far everything has worked out fine. But I'm only making things for myself at the moment...)

 

Thanks for that info. I was wondering about that exact thing. Very helpful.

[alpha2]

17 hours ago, Spyros said:

Sure it was buckleguy?  I didn't know they sell belt blanks, I can only see straps on their website.  And I don't see water buffalo anywhere...

It may have been a one-off sale. The only time I'd seen water buffalo, probably why I jumped on it.

[alpha2]

10 minutes ago, alpha2 said:

It may have been a one-off sale. The only time I'd seen water buffalo, probably why I jumped on it.

And, when I say recently...I'm old, so that could have been as much as a year ago!

[Spyros]

7 hours ago, alpha2 said:

It may have been a one-off sale. The only time I'd seen water buffalo, probably why I jumped on it.

Maybe... I order regularly from them and I wouldn't mind trying some buffalo, that's why I asked.