need turkshead help

[LAPat]

I am trying to find a way of understanding how to cover a leash at the snap end with a turkshead. Not only is it difficult to find a tutorial for doing a simple one pass turkshead, I cannot seem to understand all the descriptions I have read when it comes to continuing the braiding until the knot is long enough to cover the length of leash I require. I am having a hard time understsanding what a bight is and what sort of math is involved. I get over under around and through wording. I think that some of the descriptions are not as clear to a beginner as they are to someone who knows how to braid a turkshead. But for the very basic instruction, say for a girl scout troop level braider, where do I go? I do four strand braiding all the time, but that doesn't seem to be helping me. Any sites with lots and lots of detailed pictures?

Help!

Thanks in advance

L.A. Pat

[Johanna]

Did you look at Sidney Wood's descriptions at the bottom of this page?

Johanna

[skipj]

Check the end of this page also:

http://www.btinternet.com/~kingsmerecrafts/page71.html

SkipJ

[Alan Bell]

LA PAT, I'll try and give a simple girl scout type lesson. If you were to go to Sydney Woods tutorial then in the drawings the points at the top and the bottom represent 'bights'. A bight is what happens if you put a bend in a straight length of rope most often it is when you double the rope. The half lope is the bight. In a turks head it is when the strand passes out of the body of the knot and then back in. Making any sense? If you are trying to cover the snap end of a leash I would assume you are going to need a 4 or 6 bight X 2 also called a one and one half turn button or a long pineapple or a cowboy button. It could also be tied with four or six strings respectively but I doubt that is what you are wanting to try now. Anyways, I like to think of the knot having a front and a back and to think that we are building from left to right and from top to bottom on the front and from bottom to top on the back. When the top to bottom on the front and the bottom to top on the back meet then we have finished the knot. Lets say I wrap a strand around a core. (1)The length that I am wrapping is the working end and the length that I am holding in place is called the standing end. I cross the working end over the standing end this becomes the front of the turks head and the top. That makes the strand passing around the core the back and the bottom so I need to arrange them so that the wrap goes down on the back to ensure it is the bottom. I've passed the working end over the standing end on the front and will do the same on the back. Now when I bring the working end around the front again is where I go under the standing end and over the first pass. (2)This is the 'beginning' of the pattern, again I will do the same thing on the back or bottom. Now around the front i would go over, under, over (3)and i would repeat that pattern on the back; over, under, over. I'm 'building' from the top to the bottom on the front and from the bottom to the top on the back and adding one move to the pattern each time around. If I do this pattern 1 more times adding one move each time and alternating how I start each sequence every other time I have made a 4 bight pineapple knot. If i did it growing each time, 3 more times for a total of six times around it is a six bight knot. I believe the math uses algorithms but could not swear to this. So, basically I am looking at the pattern and how it builds it self rather than trying to remember sequences. The basic pattern can be lengthened by doubling or tripling or even quadrupling the number of times you go front to back. That makes the knot longer. Hopefully, looking at it this way will help when you see someone else's drawings or instructions. It works for me and comes from something Ernie Laduceur said in Woolery's book.

Vaya Con Dios, Alan Bell

Caution, the road is wet. Black soul is blackest yet!

Bob Marley - Caution

[Sidney Wood]

L. A. Pat

Try taylortel.net/~stwood and look at the first three lessons to get an idea of what a turkshead really is. Then go to the knot gallery there for a knot you want. One of the 5 bight knots will cover a 4 strand round braid. There is an e-mail link on the title page if you have questions. Don't hesitate to ask.

Sidney Wood

[KnotHead]

I have attached an image that I hope will help you out.

[LAPat]

Thanks to everyone for your help. I am still struggling with reading the lessons, but I think I am beginning to be able to braid what I would call a simple turkshead that looks like a regular braid. I still don't understand how to create a longer knot, but I am not done reading the lessons or studying the templates. What I am going to look for now is a picture where you can see the beginning and the end of the knot, that should help.

I am definately a visual learner. Reading is just not the easiest way for me to figure things out.

L.A. Pat

[Sidney Wood]

LAPat

The templates are a picture of the knot

They represent the cylindrical flat braid as being sliced vertically and spread out flat.

The knot starts at the right side and wraps in a clockwise direction .

when you get to the left side you jump back to the right and continue in the same direction.

The knot ends at the left bottom

Sidney Wood

[rawhide1]

LAPat do you have the encyclopedia of rawhide and leather braiding by Bruce Grant it is a excellent book for turks heads and braided knots and much more. There is also a series of books by Gail Hought they are pricey but worth it in my opion. If your just starting it would be best to buy the first in her series because each additional book builds on knots learned from the previous books to build projects. I didn't relize this and bought The Art of Braiding Romel Reins 1. But between that book and Bruce Grants books and hours of trail and error (slow learner some say rocks in my head) I was able to figure out what I needed to which was how to expand the long button knot to any length. Which is what you need to do to cover your turn back on your leash. Or you could use the cowboy button knot. I think for the money Bruce Grants encyclopedia of rawhide and leather braiding or how to make cowboy horse gear also by MR. Grant would be great books for you and help you alot. Wish ya luck Mike

[MikeG]

Hervey Garret Smith's "Marlinspike Sailor" has the best drawing and most understandable instructions I've ever seen for a running Turk's Head knot. This site has a reprint of the instructions:

http://www.mikelucasyachting.co.uk/article...c_rope_work.htm

[Spencer G]

I don't braid much, but my brother does. He has both of the videos by Bryan Neubert and they are very good, especialy for visual learners. If in addition to the simple ones, you want to learn some of the more complicated buttons, they are the way to go.

Good luck.